Undermining Hammer?

[bigngreen]

The issue is; when someone likes the product, buys the product, but then finds issues with the product and then told it's not the products fault but that you used the product incorrectly, or at the wrong altitude, or shot the wrong animal, or have the wrong gun, or used it on an even day of the week instead of an odd etc etc etc.

Sounds like dealing with George at Badlands or Cutting Edge! We all have our biases and people who rubbed us wrong.

 

[Petey308]

Your question is kinda nuts that like asking why drive a ford or Chevy.

That's an age old debate. Chevy works for some peoples intended purpose and ford for others.

I would agree, and that kind of ties into having an opinion on something you may not have any personal experience with yourself in the form of hands-on. People do that all the time with all kinds of things, not just bullets. You can form an opinion on something based on your knowledge or experience with something similar and use that as a basis for your opinion. Does it make it a fact? No, not always, and hardly ever.

I truly think it is two fold. People that like them like myself and people that will hate them just because they gained a lot of attention fast.
Kinda like the 6.5 creedmore. People love to hate them because they have been successful. Perfect nope but I've had great luck. And everyone knows I go with whatever bullet had been working the best for me. It's had me try and use almost every bullet.

I think many of they guys not big fans of the CM aren't so because of its success, but rather how it was/is marketed as better than anything else when many other cartridges are capable of similar, if not the same things. I'm not saying i believe in one way or the other, but I know that many others feel that way about it. It's really more of how its marketed and toted than its actual success. The fact that it's successful just makes it more irritating, I suppose lol.

 

[snox801]

Sounds like dealing with George at Badlands or Cutting Edge! We all have our biases and people who rubbed us wrong.

Indeed. One must also take into consideration from a business standpoint some of the downright crap you have to hear. Some may be true some flat out lies. Never can figure out why people do certain things. But I have seen many times people talking bad about a product they have never tried with such passion. Just repeating what they heard on a forum or podcast.

Like I said many people use Berger and swear by them. Other will say they are garbage. I have not had great luck with them. But I will not discount other who I know and trust on here like broz. If he says they work and have been good you can bet that is truth. Mainly because my sample size is very small compared to his with Berger. Just like I have a very large sample size with hammers that makes me trust them. Someone may have an issues once in a while that turns them off. That's fine. Lucky we have lots of choices

 

[CRP003]

Sounds like dealing with George at Badlands or Cutting Edge! We all have our biases and people who rubbed us wrong.

I'm not sure? Do those companies feel like there are group(s) out to get them and destroy them? When I'm on HTime I read posts of some that truly believe in group(s) trying to destroy Hammer. I don't think that's the case but maybe I'm wrong.

The only place I really think someone doesn't like hammer is the YouTube guy that has the video about why you shouldn't buy hammers or use them? I'm not sure but I'm actually glad this thread is going good so far.

 

[bigngreen]

I'm not sure? Do those companies feel like there are group(s) out to get them and destroy them? When I'm on HTime I read posts of some that truly believe in group(s) trying to destroy Hammer. I don't think that's the case but maybe I'm wrong.

The only place I really think someone doesn't like hammer is the YouTube guy that has the video about why you shouldn't buy hammers or use them? I'm not sure but I'm actually glad this thread is going good so far.

I don't recall a thread on either of those companies from a personal angle like recent Hammer threads I would be hard pressed if I were in Steve's or Brian's boots to take it any other way at this point. A simple Google search will show a lot of people's biases on this forum!

There seems to be an air of social justice about some of this.

 

[Greatgrandad]

I know, I know, get the popcorn popping.... hear me out though, if you would.

I've been following the discussions about Hammer Bullets for several years now, and something has been bugging me (I know I'm not the only one too). Why are so many people quick to assume that any criticism of the bullet(s) or company is an attempt to undermine them?

From what I've seen, most of the comments are pointing out issues like areas for improvement, overstated claims, potential flaws, or concerns with things like advertised ballistic coefficients. These seem like valid critiques, not attempts to sabotage the company. I haven't seen anyone truly trying to take Hammer Bullets down. I'll admit that I personally have been a critic of these things myself, but while I consider myself a critic, I do not consider myself trying to legitimately undermine anyone.

On the flip side, I've noticed that supporters of the company, and even the company co-owner at times, often react defensively to these criticisms. It's like they jump straight to the conclusion that anyone pointing out perceived flaws must have an agenda or just dislike Hammer Bullets altogether. In some cases, it's gone so far as to imply that people are fabricating bad experiences just to damage the company's reputation. I've even seen multiples times it said that even comparing Hammers to other copper bullets is an attack on Hammer, because they're not like any other copper bullet.

That's what confuses me. What would anyone really stand to gain by deliberately trying to undermine Hammer Bullets? The people making these critiques seem like regular guys and hunters. They aren't competitors with something to gain from Hammer failing as a business.

I'm genuinely curious, why all the hostility? Why assume the worst about someone who's offering criticism? I think open and honest feedback is how companies improve, and dismissing it as sabotage seems counterproductive.

It creates divisiveness and I do think at a point, after people are mistreated on both sides, there is some personal offenses taken and perhaps some do develop a bit of a grudge, which is unfortunate. Perhaps at that point, once tempers flair, it's just assumed people are out for each other?

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Why do you think this reaction happens? What's driving all the defensiveness, and do you think there's a better way to handle these discussions?

Looking forward to hearing your perspectives!

About 20+ years ago, a company I worked for introduced me to a book called "A Complaint is a Gift", and it really put into perspective how many people and companies inappropriately reacted to complaints about their products and services. Those who made the transition to accepting a complaint as an opportunity to improve, excelled in their fields.

Criticism is hard for many people to accept, for it is like a critique of ones' religion, beliefs, work, performance, decisions, etc. Those who can accept such critiques and learn, improve and grow, are the ones who become legend.

 

[Petey308]

I don't recall a thread on either of those companies from a personal angle like recent Hammer threads I would be hard pressed if I were in Steve's or Brian's boots to take it any other way at this point. A simple Google search will show a lot of people's biases on this forum!

There seems to be an air of social justice about some of this.

There's no disputing personal biases run rampant on here and everywhere. I'm sure that definitely has a lot to do with the sort of behavior referred to in the OP.

 

[Petey308]

What would anyone really stand to gain by deliberately trying to undermine Hammer Bullets? The people making these critiques seem like regular guys and hunters. They aren't competitors with something to gain from Hammer failing as a business.

Anyone have an opinion as to an answer to this question?

 

[WapitiBob]

Should have just kept the oil in the hammer hunters.

 

[CRP003]

About 20+ years ago, a company I worked for introduced me to a book called "A Complaint is a Gift", and it really put into perspective how many people and companies inappropriately reacted to complaints about their products and services. Those who made the transition to accepting a complaint as an opportunity to improve, excelled in their fields.

Criticism is hard for many people to accept, for it is like a critique of ones' religion, beliefs, work, performance, decisions, etc. Those who can accept such critiques and learn, improve and grow, are the ones who become legend.

Great post! This is what I was thinking in my original post but can't articulate how to relay it.

 

[Petey308]

About 20+ years ago, a company I worked for introduced me to a book called "A Complaint is a Gift", and it really put into perspective how many people and companies inappropriately reacted to complaints about their products and services. Those who made the transition to accepting a complaint as an opportunity to improve, excelled in their fields.

Criticism is hard for many people to accept, for it is like a critique of ones' religion, beliefs, work, performance, decisions, etc. Those who can accept such critiques and learn, improve and grow, are the ones who become legend.

Wise words. Thanks.

 

[Brathany]

I know, I know, get the popcorn popping.... hear me out though, if you would.

I've been following the discussions about Hammer Bullets for several years now, and something has been bugging me (I know I'm not the only one too). Why are so many people quick to assume that any criticism of the bullet(s) or company is an attempt to undermine them?

From what I've seen, most of the comments are pointing out issues like areas for improvement, overstated claims, potential flaws, or concerns with things like advertised ballistic coefficients. These seem like valid critiques, not attempts to sabotage the company. I haven't seen anyone truly trying to take Hammer Bullets down. I'll admit that I personally have been a critic of these things myself, but while I consider myself a critic, I do not consider myself trying to legitimately undermine anyone.

On the flip side, I've noticed that supporters of the company, and even the company co-owner at times, often react defensively to these criticisms. It's like they jump straight to the conclusion that anyone pointing out perceived flaws must have an agenda or just dislike Hammer Bullets altogether. In some cases, it's gone so far as to imply that people are fabricating bad experiences just to damage the company's reputation. I've even seen multiples times it said that even comparing Hammers to other copper bullets is an attack on Hammer, because they're not like any other copper bullet.

That's what confuses me. What would anyone really stand to gain by deliberately trying to undermine Hammer Bullets? The people making these critiques seem like regular guys and hunters. They aren't competitors with something to gain from Hammer failing as a business.

I'm genuinely curious, why all the hostility? Why assume the worst about someone who's offering criticism? I think open and honest feedback is how companies improve, and dismissing it as sabotage seems counterproductive.

It creates divisiveness and I do think at a point, after people are mistreated on both sides, there is some personal offenses taken and perhaps some do develop a bit of a grudge, which is unfortunate. Perhaps at that point, once tempers flair, it's just assumed people are out for each other?

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Why do you think this reaction happens? What's driving all the defensiveness, and do you think there's a better way to handle these discussions?

Looking forward to hearing your perspectives!

Why don't you tell us about your independent testing of Hammers? Beats the heck outta hearsay and anecdotal testimony. If I had even a 1/4 of your scientific curiosity, after "a few years" I'd be able to report and not still question.

 

[Petey308]

Why don't you tell us about your independent testing of Hammers? Beats the heck outta hearsay and anecdotal testimony. If I had even a 1/4 of your scientific curiosity, after "a few years" I'd be able to report and not still question.

I have, but that's not the point of this thread.

 

[CRP003]

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