Undermining Hammer?

[CRP003]

Criticism is good in my book. It all depends on how that criticism is taken and the responses that following it.


Example, my wife owns her own medical business also deals a lot in social media. She gets a lot of criticism. At first she would take that to heart and it would be very difficult for her not to respond in a knee-jerk reaction or a somewhat defensive and abrasive reaction. That reaction was detrimental. She is sensitive because she has invested so much time and 100,000's of dollars. She is the best at what she does but should leave the media aspect alone or let others handle it for the business to thrive.
I sometimes feel certain owners may be great at what they do, but should stay out of other parts of their business. Now some can handle it great, but others simply rub people wrong and cause more harm than good because they are so invested.

Example: Barbour Creek on here. He can handle criticism. He can handle the media platforms in a professional manner, which does nothing but help his business. He' not combative, abrasive and snippy. He is precise and informative. People still form opinions with his work, but in the end they respect him!

I think to an extent it is when that respect is lost people tend to turn on that business or its following that defend it even though they may be great people!

 

[Petey308]

I think a big part of is the sheer zeal of their "converts". They are indeed zealots passionate about what they've discovered and eager to evangelize about it haha.

For what it's worth I really like hammer, the 75 grain 257 cal pill performed flawlessly on a Sask whitetail buck and gave a point blank range out of the 257 wby that not much out there can step to. No complaints. People really have been having great experiences with them and they are easy to work up a great load with. They're a great product, they have a good thing going, and they emerged from the grassroots in a way, a true success story of entrepreneurship and commitment to research and development.

But you're right, it seems like any report of difficulty or problems or anything are jumped on as blasphemy and the would-be heretic is vehemently cross-examined, berated, or otherwise decried by the zealots! Heck I've gotten into it with some of them in the past….what I found when I privately messaged members I argued with past the point of civil discourse to apologize for my part in the unpleasantness and seek a more calm conversation (and that went both ways in these conversations I think) is that they really are just very enthusiastic about this product they love. And when others crap on it or even have bad things to report about it, it seems to feel personal which I still don't understand but it's what I observe. It's not like disagreeing about which soda you prefer, it's like calling a music buff's favourite band "trash music" or top 40 junk or whatever.

Still don't get it fully. But I think it's mostly sincere and from earnest people that really are die hard fans BECAUSE they've had incredibly good experiences and have seen for themselves, and this makes them suspicious of "fault finding missions", especially if carried out by folks that haven't actually used them for hunting.

I do see a bit of both sides here actually. There have been some pretty overt talking endeavours against this company both here AND elsewhere online that I also can't fully wrap my head around.

One thing is for sure; they've made quite a splash.

I like them. I like them a whole awful lot actually. I'm not a zealot or an evangelist for the company haha. I don't take it personally if someone has a real world bad experience and says so.

I also continue shooting hornady, Sierra, Speer, Nosler, Barnes, etc…….

Thanks for sharing. I will offer this writeup as what I see as an explanation to some of the things you question:

Chew on this: Para-social Attachment

Para-Social Attachment and Its Role in Shaping Online Behavior Part 1: Introduction to Para-Social Attachment Para-social attachment is a fascinating concept rooted in psychology and sociology, originally used to describe one-sided emotional bonds between individuals and public figures (like...

www.longrangehunting.com

You hit the nail on the head of many things expressed in that writeup. Yes, it's very much human nature. I for one would just like to have more awareness at least of it. Maybe guys can at least catch themselves then and take a step back when it's in the back of their mind.

Glad to hear you've been having success with them by the way.

 

[Petey308]

Criticism is good in my book. It all depends on how that criticism is taken and the responses that following it.


Example, my wife owns her own medical business also deals a lot in social media. She gets a lot of criticism. At first she would take that to heart and it would be very difficult for her not to respond in a knee-jerk reaction or a somewhat defensive sometimes abrasive reaction. That reaction was detrimental. She is so sensitive because she has invested so much time and 100,000's of dollars. She is the best at what she does and should leave the media aspect alone or let others handle it.
I sometimes feel certain owners may be great at what they do, but should stay out of other parts of their business. Now some can handle it great, but others simply rub people wrong and cause more harm than good because they are so invested.

Example: Barbour Creek on here. He can handle criticism he can handle the media platforms in a professional manner, which does nothing but help his business. He' not combative, abrasive and snippy. People still form opinions with his work, but in the end they respect him.

I think to an extent is when that respect is lost people tend to turn on that business or person and or its followers that defend it even though they may be great people

Thanks. I think you gave great examples. I can definitely understand why someone would be quick to judge and be defensive of something they've put their blood, sweat, and tears into, as well as it be their livelihood. Doesn't make it right, but I can be understanding of it. I guess one would just hope they eventually come around and see it's not just a massive conspiracy and find a way to get something productive out of it all.

 

[bigngreen]

Have you started a business from concept to manufacturing? Not an antagonistic question but curious?

 

[NW NM hunter]

I usually don't comment on these types of threads. The world in general is currently divided with little interest in common ground or common respect. Folks can't agree to disagree. People should be able to feel one way or another whether they are critical or supportive. This thread is the perfect example, you started a thread to perpetuate a side that you thinly veil as a question. This will undoubtedly start/continue an argument such as a bears vs packers or political sides. Until folks can really sit down and have civil conversations this will continue. People pick sides it is human nature. The ones who stay calm are the ones who don't care and move on to form their own opinions not continually try to justify their choice one way or another. Long day, best of luck in everyone's choice of endeavors.

 

[cohunt]

I may be wrong, but from what I gleam, it sounds as if hammer bullets has stopped wanting constructive criticism....sounds like some individuals have found something they think is holding the bullets performance on game back yet the owners are no longer wanting input

Ive not been directly involved in any of this, but from reading posts and pm's it seems that is more of the issue than the actual performance of the bullet. Sounds as if the owners have gotten to a point where "good enough" is now enough, yet others are still trying to help improve. I think egos have gotten involved at this point. It would be nice if everything was laid out for comprehension, but it seems at this point each person has to search for pertinent information they need

 

[Petey308]

Have you started a business from concept to manufacturing? Not an antagonistic question but curious?

Yes, but not to the same level as Hammer, but that's due to me wanting to retire from one (two) career first before starting the next one fully. Just a few more years to go...

 

[bigngreen]

I've been on here and long time, I've seen many fellow members go from just a regular guy on here to, "I think I have an idea" to being a sponsor with a business. I maybe wrong but I've never seen it go well if they involve the forum in their business. They take things harder and make concessions they shouldn't because its home turf so to speak.
On the forum member side they somehow seem to act like they have a personal stake in the company and get offended at a whole other level when they feel wronged which turns into a crap show that no one wins in.

This is one reason Len has the rules he has on threads like this, I remember when there we're not so many rules but it's necessary now as it seems there is a hidden agenda behind almost anything.

 

[Petey308]

I usually don't comment on these types of threads. The world in general is currently divided with little interest in common ground or common respect. Folks can't agree to disagree. People should be able to feel one way or another whether they are critical or supportive. This thread is the perfect example, you started a thread to perpetuate a side that you thinly veil as a question. This will undoubtedly start/continue an argument such as a bears vs packers or political sides. Until folks can really sit down and have civil conversations this will continue. People pick sides it is human nature. The ones who stay calm are the ones who don't care and move on to form their own opinions not continually try to justify their choice one way or another. Long day, best of luck in everyone's choice of endeavors.

So far it's pretty calm and civil. I hope it stays that way. That said, I totally get and agree with your point and perspective here. I have felt the way I do now for several years now. It's taken me this long to make this thread because of the very things you mentioned. Even now, I very hesitantly hit the "post thread" button and kept going back and forth on it, even thinking that that's probably my sing to not post it. Here we are though.

I will admit some of the questions in my OP are meant more so as rhetorical, but if there are legit answers I'd love to have them.

Either way, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Recon$$]

Tried them, mixed results. Moved on for multiple reasons. Don't touch the subject on this forum. I'm sure I'll get blasted for saying it lol. Hence your post.

 

[338weatherby]

I may be wrong, but from what I gleam, it sounds as if hammer bullets has stopped wanting constructive criticism....sounds like some individuals have found something they think is holding the bullets performance on game back yet the owners are no longer wanting input

Ive not been directly involved in any of this, but from reading posts and pm's it seems that is more of the issue than the actual performance of the bullet. Sounds as if the owners have gotten to a point where "good enough" is now enough, yet others are still trying to help improve. I think egos have gotten involved at this point. It would be nice if everything was laid out for comprehension, but it seems at this point each person has to search for pertinent information they need

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think sometimes entrepreneurs and the like get to a point where they are tired, sick of R&D and also taking feedback. I think we have all been there in our personal lives where we are done or need a break. Go go go gets exhausting and we all need a break. Hard to do that if your business has been centered around input from all angles. Not an easy way out of that other than just letting things be. Maybe I'm wrong here. Just my $.02. I dont get personal attached to products but I do appreciate small start up businesses and ma & pa shops.

 

[asd9055]

I no longer comment on any bullets. I have the ones that work for me and I am happy. I am not trying to convert anyone, but I have followed the discussions for a while, drew my own conclusions and keeping them to my self. The more makers out there, the better for us all.
Cheers

 

[CRP003]

Thanks. I think you gave great examples. I can definitely understand why someone would be quick to judge and be defensive of something they've put their blood, sweat, and tears into, as well as it be their livelihood. Doesn't make it right, but I can be understanding of it. I guess one would just hope they eventually come around and see it's not just a massive conspiracy and find a way to get something productive out of it all.

No it doesn't make it right and that respect gets lost.

I guess to an extent what I'm getting at is that some people don't eventually come around and some people just aren't good at that relationship with the public and that's OK. If they are not good with the public find the people that are and use them with the interactions with the public. It is detrimental to a company period. I've watched this unfold for years and it has been an ugly snowball that even I add to at times because I've lost that respect with an individual. That person maybe just a real good guy but should not think there is group(s) out to get him. I really don't care a whole lot what people shoot. I don't care what caliber they use. It's just fun to do what we do and have differences. I get that it's business to think or say you have the "best"! Just know when statements like that are made it creates backlash. I often thought the "simply better bullets" was comical( not in a rude way) because they aren't. They are simply different bullets.

 

[Petey308]

I may be wrong, but from what I gleam, it sounds as if hammer bullets has stopped wanting constructive criticism....sounds like some individuals have found something they think is holding the bullets performance on game back yet the owners are no longer wanting input

Ive not been directly involved in any of this, but from reading posts and pm's it seems that is more of the issue than the actual performance of the bullet. Sounds as if the owners have gotten to a point where "good enough" is now enough, yet others are still trying to help improve. I think egos have gotten involved at this point. It would be nice if everything was laid out for comprehension, but it seems at this point each person has to search for pertinent information they need

I have seen many companies go from a research and development phase, being very acceptive and welcoming to criticism, flip a switch and go straight into sales mode and no longer see any input perceived as criticism as valid or welcomed. They're happy with where they're at and what they've accomplished and maybe even feel as though accepting criticism makes it seem like they don't know what they're doing. They feel they've been doing it long enough that it's an insult to be questioned as if they don't. Could be some ego in there, and on both sides. This merely a perspective of my own though.