Toughest optic

[twocan]

Do you own an SWFA? I have several and disagree with your last statement. Their base models are good scopes and HD models are even better. The glass on the base models is certainly not as good as my Trijicons and Nightforces, but is more than adequate. The glass on the HD models is every bit as good as Trijicon and Nightforce. Overall, I prefer the features on my Trijicons and Nightforces (capped windage and zero stops), but for $209 for base models and $699 for HD, SWFA scopes are hard to beat.

I agree, and since I own both NF and SWFA scopes, I can speak from experience,

 

[willfrye027]

Is the Arken scope tested?

They did one, don't remember the exact model. You can try googling it. If I recall it did "ok" but zero shifted with heavy drops. They are dropping them multiple times from 3 feet…a bit overkill but hey it's nice to know which scopes pass that test. Personally I have been dropping mine 12-18 inches to identify any weakness in my shooting system and it is both eye opening and confidence inspiring (in SOME scopes). I found out that one rifle was losing zero actually because of too little barrel torque. Would never even have been on my radar..glad I got it sorted out and now have confidence that things will stay zeroed through rough hunting conditions.

 

[KH_Outdoors]

Based on my experience building custom rifles full time for the last 10 years I can say the brand with the lowest failure number has been Nightforce. And I sell more of them than any other brand. I just don't like how NF handles issues. They say theres nothing wrong with the scope and it comes back fixed. As far as scopes go Ive seen every single brand have an issue. Some alot more than others. I won't offer an accuracy guarantee with leupold or vortex. Most of what I build is lightweight 30 cal magnums. Your 15-20 lb 6.5 creedmoor won't have issues with most decent scopes out there. For all my personal hunting rifles I now have Nightforce 4-20 ATACR on them. The durability of it over a Tangent, ZCO, Kahles, swarovski etc far outweighs the slight difference in optical clarity. I haven't personally had or had a customer have an issue w a ATACR yet. ZCO can take some abuse but Ive had the parallax go out on a few of them. Most of those issues were with Spuhr mounts. Tangents had the same issues in Spuhr mounts. Im not a fan of spuhr mounts as they clamp the scope too close to the turret housing. Had a combination of 7 tangents and zco that went out on spuhr mounts. If you torqued the rings to spuhr spec there was issues. Theyd still slip and cause issues w the scope in big lightweight magnums. So I bedded them into the rings and torqued them down. They didn't slip but still had issues occasionally so I don't use those mounts anymore. Haven't had any issues yet bedding a ZCO into the ZCO rings. I did have a windage turret freeze on my Tangent Marksman 3-15 when it was single digit temps. Brought the gun back inside and a few minutes later the windage worked. Brought it back outside and a little bit later it froze again. Scope was bedded into NF 6 screw rings. Tangent sent me a label and I had it fixed and back in a week. Their customer service has been stellar in the few times there has been an issue. Same with ZCO customer service, top notch.

I also have a scope tracking jig to see if the reticle will move due to recoil. Most scopes will allow the reticle to move due to recoil. Ive seen some move 1/2 moa in 10 shots. NF NX8 and ATACR, ZCO, Tangent, Swarovski, and kahles pass the reticle movement test. Others I have tested do not.

Great feedback! @rpierce have you had any issue with ARC Rings like you have with the Spuhr mounts?

 

[Arkansasdad]

Based on my experience building custom rifles full time for the last 10 years I can say the brand with the lowest failure number has been Nightforce. And I sell more of them than any other brand. I just don't like how NF handles issues. They say theres nothing wrong with the scope and it comes back fixed. As far as scopes go Ive seen every single brand have an issue. Some alot more than others. I won't offer an accuracy guarantee with leupold or vortex. Most of what I build is lightweight 30 cal magnums. Your 15-20 lb 6.5 creedmoor won't have issues with most decent scopes out there. For all my personal hunting rifles I now have Nightforce 4-20 ATACR on them. The durability of it over a Tangent, ZCO, Kahles, swarovski etc far outweighs the slight difference in optical clarity. I haven't personally had or had a customer have an issue w a ATACR yet. ZCO can take some abuse but Ive had the parallax go out on a few of them. Most of those issues were with Spuhr mounts. Tangents had the same issues in Spuhr mounts. Im not a fan of spuhr mounts as they clamp the scope too close to the turret housing. Had a combination of 7 tangents and zco that went out on spuhr mounts. If you torqued the rings to spuhr spec there was issues. Theyd still slip and cause issues w the scope in big lightweight magnums. So I bedded them into the rings and torqued them down. They didn't slip but still had issues occasionally so I don't use those mounts anymore. Haven't had any issues yet bedding a ZCO into the ZCO rings. I did have a windage turret freeze on my Tangent Marksman 3-15 when it was single digit temps. Brought the gun back inside and a few minutes later the windage worked. Brought it back outside and a little bit later it froze again. Scope was bedded into NF 6 screw rings. Tangent sent me a label and I had it fixed and back in a week. Their customer service has been stellar in the few times there has been an issue. Same with ZCO customer service, top notch.

I also have a scope tracking jig to see if the reticle will move due to recoil. Most scopes will allow the reticle to move due to recoil. Ive seen some move 1/2 moa in 10 shots. NF NX8 and ATACR, ZCO, Tangent, Swarovski, and kahles pass the reticle movement test. Others I have tested do not.

Check out the Near scope mounts, I think they are the best. I have some on my large caliber rifles and have never had a problem. Night Force in Near mounts is the best combo I have ever owned. My First Night Force was bought in the 90's I think and the first Near mount was after 08. Before these came about I would have trouble with mounts and optics. Leupold always was great about replacing scopes but still a pain to have problems but like I said their warranty is great. I don't know it Night Force warranty is any good or not as I have never had a need for it. I use the Near triple bands on large rifles, 338-378, 416's, and a 458 or two. Used to be after a thousand rounds of 338-378 the Leupolds would give up, I have not had a Night Force give up yet in all these years. I see people spend several thousand on custom rifles to try to get accuracy and then put a mediocre scope on them, kind of like by a plasma screen and putting rabbit ears on it. How many times have you heard this is good enough for me when setting up a scope. A good scope will make an average rifle or average shooter a good rifle or the person a better shooter, junk scope on the best rifle will make a boat anchor and embarrass the shooter. I have been to matches where people scratch their heads and cannot figure out why they cant close the half ring, looking at a 5-6k rifle, never thinking that the $900 "good enough" scope could be the culprit. How many matches are won with factory rifles with good scopes? How many are lost with customs with middle of the road scopes. Several times I have seen people in CO. miss easy shots on elk after spending thousands of dollars on a hunt only to bring a boat anchor to hunt with. As far as the new Vortex craze goes they are pretty good but I wouldn't chance a shot at a 6X6 on one. Better to drive out, sleep in the truck, eat spam and spend the money for trip, guide and lodging on a good rifle and Night Force scope.
Happy shooting.

 

[Tommy T]

Based on my experience building custom rifles full time for the last 10 years I can say the brand with the lowest failure number has been Nightforce. And I sell more of them than any other brand. I just don't like how NF handles issues. They say theres nothing wrong with the scope and it comes back fixed. As far as scopes go Ive seen every single brand have an issue. Some alot more than others. I won't offer an accuracy guarantee with leupold or vortex. Most of what I build is lightweight 30 cal magnums. Your 15-20 lb 6.5 creedmoor won't have issues with most decent scopes out there. For all my personal hunting rifles I now have Nightforce 4-20 ATACR on them. The durability of it over a Tangent, ZCO, Kahles, swarovski etc far outweighs the slight difference in optical clarity. I haven't personally had or had a customer have an issue w a ATACR yet. ZCO can take some abuse but Ive had the parallax go out on a few of them. Most of those issues were with Spuhr mounts. Tangents had the same issues in Spuhr mounts. Im not a fan of spuhr mounts as they clamp the scope too close to the turret housing. Had a combination of 7 tangents and zco that went out on spuhr mounts. If you torqued the rings to spuhr spec there was issues. Theyd still slip and cause issues w the scope in big lightweight magnums. So I bedded them into the rings and torqued them down. They didn't slip but still had issues occasionally so I don't use those mounts anymore. Haven't had any issues yet bedding a ZCO into the ZCO rings. I did have a windage turret freeze on my Tangent Marksman 3-15 when it was single digit temps. Brought the gun back inside and a few minutes later the windage worked. Brought it back outside and a little bit later it froze again. Scope was bedded into NF 6 screw rings. Tangent sent me a label and I had it fixed and back in a week. Their customer service has been stellar in the few times there has been an issue. Same with ZCO customer service, top notch.

I also have a scope tracking jig to see if the reticle will move due to recoil. Most scopes will allow the reticle to move due to recoil. Ive seen some move 1/2 moa in 10 shots. NF NX8 and ATACR, ZCO, Tangent, Swarovski, and kahles pass the reticle movement test. Others I have tested do not.

You can never go wrong with Kahles , I have 4 of there scopes and they are great ,I have NF leupold and about any other scope for hunting and I always go back to the kahles

 

[floyd kittrell]

Nightforce Atac MOAR FFPand SFP

 

[Sealesniper]

I find that companies with "lifetime warranty" have that option as it is needed and used too often. If you don't mind taking your scope off to send back and then re-zero, up to you. NF is heavy, but they are solid.

 

[anwahs]

Based on my experience building custom rifles full time for the last 10 years I can say the brand with the lowest failure number has been Nightforce. And I sell more of them than any other brand. I just don't like how NF handles issues. They say theres nothing wrong with the scope and it comes back fixed. As far as scopes go Ive seen every single brand have an issue. Some alot more than others. I won't offer an accuracy guarantee with leupold or vortex. Most of what I build is lightweight 30 cal magnums. Your 15-20 lb 6.5 creedmoor won't have issues with most decent scopes out there. For all my personal hunting rifles I now have Nightforce 4-20 ATACR on them. The durability of it over a Tangent, ZCO, Kahles, swarovski etc far outweighs the slight difference in optical clarity. I haven't personally had or had a customer have an issue w a ATACR yet. ZCO can take some abuse but Ive had the parallax go out on a few of them. Most of those issues were with Spuhr mounts. Tangents had the same issues in Spuhr mounts. Im not a fan of spuhr mounts as they clamp the scope too close to the turret housing. Had a combination of 7 tangents and zco that went out on spuhr mounts. If you torqued the rings to spuhr spec there was issues. Theyd still slip and cause issues w the scope in big lightweight magnums. So I bedded them into the rings and torqued them down. They didn't slip but still had issues occasionally so I don't use those mounts anymore. Haven't had any issues yet bedding a ZCO into the ZCO rings. I did have a windage turret freeze on my Tangent Marksman 3-15 when it was single digit temps. Brought the gun back inside and a few minutes later the windage worked. Brought it back outside and a little bit later it froze again. Scope was bedded into NF 6 screw rings. Tangent sent me a label and I had it fixed and back in a week. Their customer service has been stellar in the few times there has been an issue. Same with ZCO customer service, top notch.

I also have a scope tracking jig to see if the reticle will move due to recoil. Most scopes will allow the reticle to move due to recoil. Ive seen some move 1/2 moa in 10 shots. NF NX8 and ATACR, ZCO, Tangent, Swarovski, and kahles pass the reticle movement test. Others I have tested do not.

Have you tried one of these with the Spuhr mounts?

 

[Brazos65]

There's a whole "cult" of dudes on Rokslide who meticulously test optics with drop tests. Methodology looks good. SWFA, nightforce, trijicon so far have done well. A few others. Seems like the vortex options fail badly.

But Vortex has a great warranty…that a LOT of folks use. I'd rather keep my optic on my gun than in the mail
Razors are legit tho.

 

[Brazos65]

Is the Arken scope tested?

The Arken's are built like tanks. Heavy tho.

 

[blvette75]

Interesting post, I have interest in another fairly new scope, Zeiss S3 and S5 series scopes any information on how robust these are? Is there any information on the Valdada scopes as several of these may work for me as well? I take it ZCO is the Zero Compromise., I have a few Vortex (one Razor dropped it on a CA rifle with a spuhr mount held zero), Leupold scopes (one Mark V), with either a Sphur and other vortex rings mounts haven't had problems but haven't dropped any but the razor, I set them up and check zero annually. I have an XTR II Burris on my AR10 6.5 Creedmoor dropped a time or three, with the Burris AR-P.E.P.R. that has always held zero. I agree with the group stating to buy a great rifle and a so-so scope, if you want to shoot through the same hole spend the money and get a better scope, otherwise you are handicapping yourself and your rifle and your reload combinations, live and learn, wished I would have gone the best available optic and budgeted for it sooner in life, wasn't until I bought a better scope, once I started switching to my other rifles. I went dammit, will quit messing with trying to optimize this load any further, just went go and buy a better scope.

Nightforce to my understanding are the most robust scopes out there. just heavy when I compared versus the Mark V or the Razor LHT I bought for the given rifle, but may have to just deal with weight in the future. Great information thanks to everyone for sharing. I believe one of the reason I have not seen the failures others see is due to time commitments don't get to shoot as much as others commenting. Thanks for the information on the Tangent Theta scopes.

James

 

[crazymonkey]

Nightforce is heavy but solid and definitely built for just about anything you could do to it. Vortex is junk they sell because of there warranty . I bought 4 at the same time and 3 went back with tracking issues and I've yet to shoot the 338 with the 4th . It's the only one still mounted on a gun . Two were sold one is still in the box .

 

[Huntnful]

Based on my experience building custom rifles full time for the last 10 years I can say the brand with the lowest failure number has been Nightforce. And I sell more of them than any other brand. I just don't like how NF handles issues. They say theres nothing wrong with the scope and it comes back fixed. As far as scopes go Ive seen every single brand have an issue. Some alot more than others. I won't offer an accuracy guarantee with leupold or vortex. Most of what I build is lightweight 30 cal magnums. Your 15-20 lb 6.5 creedmoor won't have issues with most decent scopes out there. For all my personal hunting rifles I now have Nightforce 4-20 ATACR on them. The durability of it over a Tangent, ZCO, Kahles, swarovski etc far outweighs the slight difference in optical clarity. I haven't personally had or had a customer have an issue w a ATACR yet. ZCO can take some abuse but Ive had the parallax go out on a few of them. Most of those issues were with Spuhr mounts. Tangents had the same issues in Spuhr mounts. Im not a fan of spuhr mounts as they clamp the scope too close to the turret housing. Had a combination of 7 tangents and zco that went out on spuhr mounts. If you torqued the rings to spuhr spec there was issues. Theyd still slip and cause issues w the scope in big lightweight magnums. So I bedded them into the rings and torqued them down. They didn't slip but still had issues occasionally so I don't use those mounts anymore. Haven't had any issues yet bedding a ZCO into the ZCO rings. I did have a windage turret freeze on my Tangent Marksman 3-15 when it was single digit temps. Brought the gun back inside and a few minutes later the windage worked. Brought it back outside and a little bit later it froze again. Scope was bedded into NF 6 screw rings. Tangent sent me a label and I had it fixed and back in a week. Their customer service has been stellar in the few times there has been an issue. Same with ZCO customer service, top notch.

I also have a scope tracking jig to see if the reticle will move due to recoil. Most scopes will allow the reticle to move due to recoil. Ive seen some move 1/2 moa in 10 shots. NF NX8 and ATACR, ZCO, Tangent, Swarovski, and kahles pass the reticle movement test. Others I have tested do not.

Excellent comprehensive answer here. I can mirror this experience almost exactly, just on a smaller scale. ZCO glass is impeccable, but the Parralax is not dependable. Many failure reports including my own on that. Ended up on an ATACR 4-20 for my long range hunting rig and there has been zero funny business. Good enough glass, good enough turrets, good enough functionality.. EXCELLENT durability and repeatability, which is about all I care about anymore.

 

[speedbump]

Nightforce. I've had two, one for over 20 years on a 7mmRUM prone gun built for the Wimbledon Cup. It's been through two barrels, and the scope hasn't budged. NF BR 12-42x56mm.

The other is an NXS on a 308 M700 Milspec. Same result: thousands of rounds of rough use...zero issues of any kind.

Two immensely crucial points:
1. Rings
2. Base(s).
Without a set as solid as the scope, it would fail even if it had "Hubble" stamped on the side. Badger, Night force, and a couple others come to mind....