Thoughts on antler restrictions

[Montana'eer]

I'm speaking only of Montana as that's the state I live in and have the most experience with.

Not a huge fan of the idea of a point restriction and too many people just won't get this one right as they're too darn impatient.

What I would be in favor of is to (for deer) take a bunch of our units and give the idea of shutting the season down about mid November for bucks unless one draws a special tag to be able to hunt the rut a go. Mid November would still catch a fair bit of the rut but would most certainly allow a lot of youngsters to survive another couple of seasons or so. Too darn many bucks get taken out during the rut......

Go out to eastern Mt on any given week during the season and you'll see a world supply of juvenile 3 and 4 points in the back of trucks and or riding around in side by sides. If these buggers would survive another 3 or so years then one has a chance for them to turn into something. Instead they end up getting tossed or thrown on the floor in the garage for the next X number of years.

I'm for some type of restrictions on size/age in certain areas for mule deer. (I'm in Montana as well). A number of years ago there was a mandatory check station in Malta for CWD. We pulled in with my buck- we we're 4th in line. Ahead of us- 3 out of state cars, one a mini-cooper of all things, and all 3 had immature bucks. Very immature. Fork horns. All mule deer. Sorry but this chaps our bumms.

These 3 guys walked back and looked in my truck and were amazed there were deer that big. My buddy said- don't shoot juveniles and keep hunting. He was so peeved he walked over to one vehicle with a little buck, took off his kerchief, swiped at the mouth a few times. The guy asked what he was doing and John said "just wiping the milk off his lips before he gets checked".

Yeah I'm for some restrictions on mule deer.

 

[birddog 68]

OP here. Thanks for all your replies. Kind of surprising but for the most part everyone seems to be in agreement that antler restrictions are good for hunters and the herd.
Most here in my home state were opposed to restrictions at first but now most like them after seeing the results.
We have exceptions for youth, disabled and active duty service members which I agree with but senior's must abide which I disagree with.(and no I am not one)
I guess there's no way to please everyone when it comes to a management plan.

 

[Rosebud]

Was picking up deer from the processor/ Taxidermy shop yesterday. Guy was dropping off this guy. It scored. 160 1/8. 5 year old from the wild , no high fence East Central Alabama buck. See what happens to bucks that make it to 5 or 6 . this isn't a crop land buck, but its along the coosa river bottoms.

 

[birddog 68]

Was picking up deer from the processor/ Taxidermy shop yesterday. Guy was dropping off this guy. It scored. 160 1/8. 5 year old from the wild , no high fence East Central Alabama buck. See what happens to bucks that make it to 5 or 6 . this isn't a crop land buck, but its along the coosa river bottoms.

Impressive

 

[bluedog69]

Here is a page that ironically was revived about the same time this thread started. It documents what I was saying was true.

Missouri Antler Point Restrictions Increase Boone and...

www.missouriwhitetails.com

 

[victor3ranger]

The most important part I think is somehow to educate hunters on how to accurately judge the age of a deer in the wild and have what ever it takes to keep from pulling the trigger on a young deer.
I know it's not a easy thing to do some times, me included.

 

[HRM Johnny]

Man....wake up finish the first cup of coffee and the fire is already stoked and damper wide open. Will try a quick summary to start and I need more coffee.

No question Antler Restrictions work to increase and decrease quality animals. I just want to see one manager who dictates what is done in the field who has generational experience ranching/raising livestock and made a living at it. Not the phony five animal hobby farm...lets say 200 head or more. Next would be the ability to fully implement their knowledge and experience. That means everyone including politicians (judges fall under politicians since they run for election), hunters, tribes, vegans, enforcement, all of it follow the plan for a minimum of 10yrs.
Will that happen? You know the answer.
They changed our elk area from any bull to spikes well past 10yrs ago. Before the change we would kill 2-3 bulls a year with a decent rag horn or up to 280. A couple studs and those were just pure luck. With a permit now it's not hard at all to shoot a 300 or larger. Now we see a lot more branch antlered bulls and some real studs every day we never saw before. The issue is permits numbers are decreasing exponentially and waiting 12-18 years for a bull tag is common. Now a good year is two bulls and several years of no bulls killed. Overall we see a lot more elk every day than before the restrictions. For our situation we feel there are some very clear distinctions on who thinks its a success and those who don't.

Well said. Thank you.

 

[highfinblue]

I'm definitely for shooting older deer, but where I live it is a most difficult thing to do judging according to their antlers. It's like I have two subspecies living where I hunt. Some of these deer with 125-135" antlers will not weigh 100 pounds dressed. When they walk out, they look like giants if they are 200 yards away, and I have shot three of them over the last ten years thinking I was shooting an absolute monster. I shot another deer that weighed 172 pounds dressed with 154" of antler that really didn't look any better because he was 70 pounds bigger. I am not sure what the answer is. I'm 61 years old, grew up with if it's brown it's down meat mentality, and now when we don't have all the kids at home, I try to be pickier, but ground shrinkage is a huge issue in this neck of the woods. The deer I shot last year was short, blocky, and looked like a linebacker, but his body was tiny, like I said, maybe 100-120 pounds dressed. I didn't have him aged, so I can't say for sure he was young or old, but when you have a deer herd as weird as this one it's going to be hard to manage by antler restrictions.

 

[VTbluegrass]

Not an antler restriction but in Eastern NC of your 6 deer tags at one point 4 could be bucks. I saw numerous people shooting forkies instead of one of the dozen does he was standing with in an ag field. They cut us back to 2 bucks last year and I feel I am having more buck encounters on public land. I finally bit the bullet and joined a club this year of about 3500 acres with 20 members with a 1 over 15" wide and 1cull rule. Even surrounded by dog hunting the place turns out really nice deer and I had one sit this season with 8 separate rack buck encounters,it was kinda nuts for this public land guy.

 

[shooterntn]

Interested in others thoughts on antler restrictions.
I live in a state with antler restrictions which have been in place for quite a few years but have hunted states without restrictions and have seen the good results but have also seen the bad and ugly.
I will disclose my thoughts later which may or may not align with others here.
Everyone will not agree with others so please keep this civil.
Thanks, birddog 68

Well some have never killed big deer, and I'm referring to 140 plus. So when 2 half year comes across some take it, some say I need meat, well you have plenty does, but if you want good quality deer you have to be smart, Crossville did the 4 point one side, which it not bad, but the 2 buck bag limit still does not give the small bucks time to show potential, because some hunters will shoot a spike, but let the kids take whatever, I personally would love to see 1 buck bag limit for 5 years and see the improvement !

 

[Wolf76]

No free lunch when trying to change the age structure. You have to give something to get something. I've noticed in my area that the bucks have changed for the better. Rarely do I see basket rack 6 or 8 pts. I've been hunting the same family land for 30 years, so can definitely speak to decades of deer pics and sightings. My group of neighbors has implemented QDM without a mandate. Basically 2.5 yo or older and shoot cull bucks(I do my share). Between food plots and trigger management, the deer herd is the healthiest I've ever seen it. Buck to doe ratio is 2:5 as best as I can tell. The attached photo isn't the biggest deer I have on camera this year.

I think the spread requirement is stupid because it requires measurement that is difficult to field judge.
Hunters shooting animals and leaving them because they didn't take the time fully evaluate the target really disgusts me.

The general premise for APRs makes sense and does work. It also has some weakness in that inferior bucks will live longer. But I think there's far more good than bad.

There is no perfect solution.

 

[LouisianaHunter]

Some of you may not be aware that Mississippi State University has an amazing research department and have been studying the Whitetails for several years. Everything about them including population management, habitat, etc. They have also studied the growth of the male buck in terms of nutrition and aging which includes antler restrictions. You can go on YouTube and search. Excellent for whitetail hunters and enthusiasts.

If you are Interested in genetics go to Miss State's Deer University podcast and listen to episode 32 . It details an extensive study done in south Texas. They spent a lot of time and money to come up with interesting conclusions . Kind of long ,but worth it.

 

[birddog 68]

Hunters shooting animals and leaving them because they didn't take the time fully evaluate the target really disgusts me.

I've seen this and it's going to happen especially here where they love to fine anyone who makes a mistake.

The general premise for APRs makes sense and does work. It also has some weakness in that inferior bucks will live longer. But I think there's far more good than bad.

Totally agree with this!

 

[bluedog69]

If you are Interested in genetics go to Miss State's Deer University podcast and listen to episode 32 . It details an extensive study done in south Texas. They spent a lot of time and money to come up with interesting conclusions . Kind of long ,but worth it.

One of these studies done down there was on a fenced herd. Not a fair comparison.