Thoughts on antler restrictions

This is the first time I've heard of point restrictions combined with spread.
This could be challenging to confirm even for a experienced hunter during rifle season let alone a rookie.
Oops. I should have used "or" instead of "and". The doe regs here are very generous. If I just wanted meat, there would be plenty of opportunities. The bucks have just outsmarted me so far. Very dry leaves limit any kind of spot and stalk opportunities.
 
Some of you may not be aware that Mississippi State University has an amazing research department and have been studying the Whitetails for several years. Everything about them including population management, habitat, etc. They have also studied the growth of the male buck in terms of nutrition and aging which includes antler restrictions. You can go on YouTube and search. Excellent for whitetail hunters and enthusiasts.
 
It definitely helps manage deer populations in areas that were prone to over harvest of buck deer and under harvest of does.

It hurts private ranch lands that are already managing their herd for quality by making it illegal to kill cull bucks.

My county has a 13" minimum spread so this buck is allowed to breed more trash bucks that look just like him.
Bingo. I'm in the same boat and have to watch what we consider culls running around breeding does while the nice bucks are getting whacked and tossed in coolers.

On the flip side, we are seeing more deer consistently than we ever have. So it has improved the deer numbers but not with quality bucks.
 
Some of you may not be aware that Mississippi State University has an amazing research department and have been studying the Whitetails for several years. Everything about them including population management, habitat, etc. They have also studied the growth of the male buck in terms of nutrition and aging which includes antler restrictions. You can go on YouTube and search. Excellent for whitetail hunters and enthusiasts.
Way back when I was in College I was part of the SE deer study group.
Mississippi has a excellent program and so does Texas A&M.
Spent 4 years on that study and was part of the group to do the very first ultrasounds on wild whitetails in the field.
Truely trying to get a Hurd to it's greatest potential is a multifaceted endeavor and the real wild card is Genetics, both from the bucks and the does
 
Interested in others thoughts on antler restrictions.
I live in a state with antler restrictions which have been in place for quite a few years but have hunted states without restrictions and have seen the good results but have also seen the bad and ugly.
I will disclose my thoughts later which may or may not align with others here.
Everyone will not agree with others so please keep this civil.
Thanks, birddog 68
Just what I saw the 1st year Colorado went to antler restrictions many years ago. Was bowhunting there hunting year number two. Found many young bucks dead in the oak brush hills south west of Meeker Colo. That would almost have made the limit of the restrictions. Apparently they ground checked them during the rifle season. Oops, walk off.
 
In Missouri back in the 80's and 90's roughly 98.7% of bucks killed were 1.5 year olds. Spikes, forkies, sixes, small 8's and 10's. The was data from the MDC. They would cut back the skin and identify the tri molar which is an almost 100% guarantee its a 1.5 year old. My wife checked in a 115" 2 year old and the guys at the check station KNEW there was no way a woman killed a buck that big. This was about 1990.
Antler restrictions hit about 2000. I was so thankful they did. It took about 5 years for them to EDUCATE people on deer age. Back in the 80's a gray colored forky was an old old deer. Nobody had a clue what age should look like. By 2010 they had learned.
In 2010 I knew of over a dozen deer that went from 184 up to 218 in my county. Then in 2011 and especially the drought of 2012 EHD dropped our deer population back to 1960 levels. That was devastating. By about 2019 the herd was getting back to a good age structure. All six of my kids have grown up with 4 on one side as a rule. Yes it may have cost some of them a buck as they grew up but they still shot does. Ironically my 4 daughters self imposed their own limits on themselves that they then passed many bucks that most would call shooters.
I know a lot of guys that pass a lot of 140" deer and go buckless many years. The 4 points on a side rule don't matter to them at all anymore. They refuse to shoot a buck before his time.
One reason I pushed my game warden to look into an antler restriction was inbreeding. We were witnessing most of the 1.5 year old bucks doing the breeding along with button bucks even. We had some deer showing up with massive overbites(inbreeding trait). Why?????? The bucks don't start dispersing and traveling great distances to breed until 2-4. So all the baby bucks were breeding their moms and sisters etc. do that for 30 years and it takes a toll.
If you can pass a buck one to two years they will at least be a decent buck with more meat.

So I LOVE what Ant. Res. have done to educate people. If all you have ever seen is a 1 or 2 year old buck you have no clue what 3 - 6 yr olds look like. Bill Jordan of Monster bucks said his first video they made was full of high 120's and people all over the USA were eating up those "Monster bucks" on film.

As far as negatively affecting genetics I don't think it is hardly even possible in most populations of deer. Bucks are traveling 10 miles to breed does, most will end up with 4 on one side by 4 or 5 years of age anyway. Kids can now shoot anything they want so that opens up letting a kid tag a 5 year old six point(dang rare anyway).

A buck in Iowa was a giant 8 point his 3-5 years. His 6th year he added on about 15 extra stickers and small typical tines. Roger Sapper say that is why he doesn't believe in culling 8 pointers until they hit 6 years of age.
 
Some of you may not be aware that Mississippi State University has an amazing research department and have been studying the Whitetails for several years. Everything about them including population management, habitat, etc. They have also studied the growth of the male buck in terms of nutrition and aging which includes antler restrictions. You can go on YouTube and search. Excellent for whitetail hunters and enthusiasts.
You need to be careful on many of these studies. They did them in "closed herds" with little genetic diversity.
 
In Missouri back in the 80's and 90's roughly 98.7% of bucks killed were 1.5 year olds. Spikes, forkies, sixes, small 8's and 10's. The was data from the MDC. They would cut back the skin and identify the tri molar which is an almost 100% guarantee its a 1.5 year old. My wife checked in a 115" 2 year old and the guys at the check station KNEW there was no way a woman killed a buck that big. This was about 1990.
Antler restrictions hit about 2000. I was so thankful they did. It took about 5 years for them to EDUCATE people on deer age. Back in the 80's a gray colored forky was an old old deer. Nobody had a clue what age should look like. By 2010 they had learned.
In 2010 I knew of over a dozen deer that went from 184 up to 218 in my county. Then in 2011 and especially the drought of 2012 EHD dropped our deer population back to 1960 levels. That was devastating. By about 2019 the herd was getting back to a good age structure. All six of my kids have grown up with 4 on one side as a rule. Yes it may have cost some of them a buck as they grew up but they still shot does. Ironically my 4 daughters self imposed their own limits on themselves that they then passed many bucks that most would call shooters.
I know a lot of guys that pass a lot of 140" deer and go buckless many years. The 4 points on a side rule don't matter to them at all anymore. They refuse to shoot a buck before his time.
One reason I pushed my game warden to look into an antler restriction was inbreeding. We were witnessing most of the 1.5 year old bucks doing the breeding along with button bucks even. We had some deer showing up with massive overbites(inbreeding trait). Why?????? The bucks don't start dispersing and traveling great distances to breed until 2-4. So all the baby bucks were breeding their moms and sisters etc. do that for 30 years and it takes a toll.
If you can pass a buck one to two years they will at least be a decent buck with more meat.

So I LOVE what Ant. Res. have done to educate people. If all you have ever seen is a 1 or 2 year old buck you have no clue what 3 - 6 yr olds look like. Bill Jordan of Monster bucks said his first video they made was full of high 120's and people all over the USA were eating up those "Monster bucks" on film.

As far as negatively affecting genetics I don't think it is hardly even possible in most populations of deer. Bucks are traveling 10 miles to breed does, most will end up with 4 on one side by 4 or 5 years of age anyway. Kids can now shoot anything they want so that opens up letting a kid tag a 5 year old six point(dang rare anyway).

A buck in Iowa was a giant 8 point his 3-5 years. His 6th year he added on about 15 extra stickers and small typical tines. Roger Sapper say that is why he doesn't believe in culling 8 pointers until they hit 6 years of age.

I would LOVE to see South Dakota institute an age limit on bucks. I passed more 120's-140's than I can count this year. I plan to do a video of a lot of it.

Bottom line, the majority of hunters are shooting young deer... unless someone makes them stop.

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I'm speaking only of Montana as that's the state I live in and have the most experience with.

Not a huge fan of the idea of a point restriction and too many people just won't get this one right as they're too darn impatient.

What I would be in favor of is to (for deer) take a bunch of our units and give the idea of shutting the season down about mid November for bucks unless one draws a special tag to be able to hunt the rut a go. Mid November would still catch a fair bit of the rut but would most certainly allow a lot of youngsters to survive another couple of seasons or so. Too darn many bucks get taken out during the rut......

Go out to eastern Mt on any given week during the season and you'll see a world supply of juvenile 3 and 4 points in the back of trucks and or riding around in side by sides. If these buggers would survive another 3 or so years then one has a chance for them to turn into something. Instead they end up getting tossed or thrown on the floor in the garage for the next X number of years.
 

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