This is my backup bear gun, change my mind.

[hunter0528]

Just remember what ever you choose, make sure you can shoot it quickly an ACCURATELY. What good is a S&W 500 if you can not handle the recoil or are afraid of the recoil. Personally I think the biggest you have that you can hold a 6" group repeatly at 25 yards.

 

[coop2564]

Been using 45 ACP in Sig 1911 with FMJ flat tip for many years...never needed it but its there. Spare mag next to it.

 

[sea2summit]

Just remember what ever you choose, make sure you can shoot it quickly an ACCURATELY. What good is a S&W 500 if you can not handle the recoil or are afraid of the recoil. Personally I think the biggest you have that you can hold a 6" group repeatly at 25 yards.

I went to a match last fall and one of the add on comps was a 25 MOA challenge with pistol, shot at 25 yards, three targets, five rounds each. I would estimate less than 20% of the folks who actually tired could keep their rounds on the three 8.5x11 sheets of paper the dot was printed on and there were a lot of shocked/sad faces. And the majority were not unskilled folks. If you haven't actually shot for a group like that at 25 I highly encourage it, best case you'll probably see that the zero you have for 7/10 yards isn't quite centered up at longer ranges.

 

[XSIVSPD]

I went to a match last fall and one of the add on comps was a 25 MOA challenge with pistol, shot at 25 yards, three targets, five rounds each. I would estimate less than 20% of the folks who actually tired could keep their rounds on the three 8.5x11 sheets of paper the dot was printed on and there were a lot of shocked/sad faces. And the majority were not unskilled folks. If you haven't actually shot for a group like that at 25 I highly encourage it, best case you'll probably see that the zero you have for 7/10 yards isn't quite centered up at longer ranges.

I used to shoot bullseye comps with the sherrifs dept. @ 25yrds. I have a lot of fun with it, but most people seem to only shoot at the 7yd line. They never bother with anything longer, which is a shame. Being able to hold a small group @25 makes those shorter shots easy. Like practicing @600yds and then finding your game animal at 100yds.

 

[calling4life]

I used to do some competition rifle.

I got into handguns this past year, bears on my immediate property and everyday living space being the general reason.

Boy is this different, I may throw a fit if I was shooting 1" groups at 100 yards with my rifle, but boy I'm lucky to hit worth a hoot with a handgun.

I've got a 3" 1911 9mm as my everyday people repeller, 4" 500 S&W as my everyday bear/animal repeller.

The 1911 points very naturally, I can shoot on my property, 8" steel plates out to 15-16 yards, then 10" plates at 19-20.

I don't even hit the 8" steel plates all the time, not even close.

You go from shooting eyeballs at 200yds with a rifle to shooting a basketball at 20 yards with a handgun and it'll kill your confidence quick.

Then you run the math, say 5" sight radius, say you're off with the sights by 1/16". The front blade is a touch high, a tough low, a touch left/right etc...

16 * 5 = 80" Every 80" you're off 1" with that. That's every 6.67' you're off by 1", that's 2.22 yards
So, at that 7 yards, if your sight alignment is off 1/16 of an inch, you're missing by 3".

Say your first shot your front sight is high, you miss 3" high, DANGIT!!! don't shoot high, boom, front sight blade was low 1/16" this time, overcompensated, 3" low.

Your group is now 6" at 7 yards and you've only shot twice, sight alignment only 1/16" off with any given shot. Now take ammo consistency, firearm accuracy, and so on into account, jesus, even the size of the sight dot. That group being 6" because you were off with your sight alignment by 1/16 means it would be 3" with only 1/32 sight misalignment. Times that by 3 to get 21 yards and your group is 9" with 1/32" sight "misalignment" in a couple directions. Are people really holding that steady, off hand, to hold 8" groups at 25 yards... or better yet, the 4" "headshot" sized groups so many claim.

I figure this handgun thing isn't as simple as people seem to say...

Anyway, my plan for bear is simple, I get 1, that's it, 1 shot, hit, period, whether that shot is at 10 feet or 1 foot, plan for 1 and plan to make it count. Any others will be with the bear on top of me. That's my plan.

 

[Ol' Red]

I used to do some competition rifle.

I got into handguns this past year, bears on my immediate property and everyday living space being the general reason.

Boy is this different, I may throw a fit if I was shooting 1" groups at 100 yards with my rifle, but boy I'm lucky to hit worth a hoot with a handgun.

I've got a 3" 1911 9mm as my everyday people repeller, 4" 500 S&W as my everyday bear/animal repeller.

The 1911 points very naturally, I can shoot on my property, 8" steel plates out to 15-16 yards, then 10" plates at 19-20.

I don't even hit the 8" steel plates all the time, not even close.

You go from shooting eyeballs at 200yds with a rifle to shooting a basketball at 20 yards with a handgun and it'll kill your confidence quick.

Then you run the math, say 5" sight radius, say you're off with the sights by 1/16". The front blade is a touch high, a tough low, a touch left/right etc...

16 * 5 = 80" Every 80" you're off 1" with that. That's every 6.67' you're off by 1", that's 2.22 yards
So, at that 7 yards, if your sight alignment is off 1/16 of an inch, you're missing by 3".

Say your first shot your front sight is high, you miss 3" high, DANGIT!!! don't shoot high, boom, front sight blade was low 1/16" this time, overcompensated, 3" low.

Your group is now 6" at 7 yards and you've only shot twice, sight alignment only 1/16" off with any given shot. Now take ammo consistency, firearm accuracy, and so on into account, jesus, even the size of the sight dot. That group being 6" because you were off with your sight alignment by 1/16 means it would be 3" with only 1/32 sight misalignment. Times that by 3 to get 21 yards and your group is 9" with 1/32" sight "misalignment" in a couple directions. Are people really holding that steady, off hand, to hold 8" groups at 25 yards... or better yet, the 4" "headshot" sized groups so many claim.

I figure this handgun thing isn't as simple as people seem to say...

Anyway, my plan for bear is simple, I get 1, that's it, 1 shot, hit, period, whether that shot is at 10 feet or 1 foot, plan for 1 and plan to make it count. Any others will be with the bear on top of me. That's my plan.

Shoot as often as possible, reload and repeat. I could not hit the broad side of a barn when I first started shooting handguns. That was years ago, now I often hunt with handguns. My longest shot was 185 yards for a one shot kill on a mule deer. Don't get discouraged.

 

[hunter0528]

I used to shoot bullseye comps with the sherrifs dept. @ 25yrds. I have a lot of fun with it, but most people seem to only shoot at the 7yd line. They never bother with anything longer, which is a shame. Being able to hold a small group @25 makes those shorter shots easy. Like practicing @600yds and then finding your game animal at 100yds.

I used to shoot in the IPSC and Bianchi competitons. My .45 in a bench rest would group about 1.2 to 2" Me at 25 was happy to keep all shots in the Black circle (about 6"), and that took many many rounds in practice. I can still hit a 12" plate off hand at 100 yds. I used to hunt with a handgun (in my younger days :-( ) but limited my distance to what ever I could consistently hold a 8" group rested. That gave me a confidence I could place my shots into the major vitals of a white tail deer here in Maine.

 

[UplandFreak]

Tracking just curious how much velocity is lost between the 20 and 29 with the shorter barrel? With a .44 the difference between 5 and 2.5 is about 150 fps, if a 10mm lost 150 fps its going to be like shooting a .40.

Its only 25-50 fps with heavy loads. Closer to 100 fps with light loads.

 

[KY_Windage]

Anyway, my plan for bear is simple, I get 1, that's it, 1 shot, hit, period, whether that shot is at 10 feet or 1 foot, plan for 1 and plan to make it count. Any others will be with the bear on top of me. That's my plan.

Good plan, because you are exactly right. Guides have been killed without ever getting a shot off. Others got one shot off before they got killed, but did not hit the bear.

Also, a whole lot of charges end before they get to you, but that might change if you shoot them and it is not instantly fatal.

 

[mitebeck]

Just came across this from "The Real Gunsmith" about living and hunting in Grizzly country

 

[KY_Windage]

Sure, the bigger and faster the bullet, the better, but it probably does not matter what you have if you are mounted, like those two guys were, because it's going to be all you can do to keep from being thrown off that horse, which will be absolutely freaking out.

Going up to a deer, elk, etc. that has been out dead overnight in grizzly country is a very dangerous situation to be in. They never should have gotten on those horses while in that danger zone.

It is also much better for BOTH people to be armed, and not just one of them.

 

[XSIVSPD]

Just came across this from "The Real Gunsmith" about living and hunting in Grizzly country

Ugh. I have zero interest in what that guy has to say about almost anything. I'm amazed he's ever shot anything other than a 30-06 and a colt brand 1911 in 45acp.

 

[sea2summit]

Just came across this from "The Real Gunsmith" about living and hunting in Grizzly country

I can't watch that guy. Cliff notes?

 

[Buck Fever]

Its only 25-50 fps with heavy loads. Closer to 100 fps with light loads.

I think you are a bit optimistic on the performance of the 29.

Here is a web page testing various 10mm loads at various barrel length and a "real world" example.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 10mm Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

It suggests the difference between a 3.5" 29 and a 6" 20/21/40 could be between 100-150 fps.

I haven't pushed it this far yet but I am aiming for 1,350 fps with a Hornady 180 XTP. The XTP seems to expand well, penetrate deep, retain most of it's mass at velocity near that (in ballistic gelatin) and heavier bullets seem to lose too much muzzle velocity to maintain the same energy. Bear might be tougher than ballistic gelatin but I still think a 180 XTP is about the biggest punch you can get from a semi-auto. .460 Rowland is another that people look at but the .451 hollow points are designed to work closer to .45 ACP velocities so I think a cast bullet would need to be used and then you will get great penetration but lose expansion (mostly), temporary wound cavity and wound cavity width.

An interesting thing from that site, 357SIG keeps up with 10mm kinetic energy pretty well. I've got a 5.32" conversion barrel for my Glock 22. Could it be a backup bear gun? I wouldn't try it, I don't think the 125ish grain bullets that it uses would hold together very well, expansion would be less and if the bullet does come apart, penetration would certainly suffer.

An Automag, Desert Eagle or other huge semi-auto pistol might improve on a 10mm but I think the logical and cheaper step up is to a .44 Magnum revolver and then up the ladder with .480 Ruger, .454 Casull, .475 Linebaugh, .500 S&W and other big bore revolver cartridges.