The PRC die "problem"

[elkaholic]

I got sick of die makers passing the buck all the time amd offering to fix THEIR problems with more $$$. ADG makes great brass and if your chamber reamer and dies are to a spec that works, there should be no issues.
So far, Hornady Match have met my needs and Ben doesnt treat me like an idiot when there is something to deal with.
What Ive found is Saami is often a problem but it you pay for custom dies, they should work. PERIOD!

 

[FURMAN]

Like Alex said the SAAMI chamber is too small at the base. Ben cut me a custom die. We discussed all of this when I ordered it. .528 is as small as he felt he could go without cracking the die due to the issues Alex mentioned. The chamber needs to be "more loose" at the base. I feel like these headaches are just making the SAUM case look better.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Who is Ben?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I got sick of die makers passing the buck all the time amd offering to fix THEIR problems with more $$$. ADG makes great brass and if your chamber reamer and dies are to a spec that works, there should be no issues.
So far, Hornady Match have met my needs and Ben doesnt treat me like an idiot when there is something to deal with.
What Ive found is Saami is often a problem but it you pay for custom dies, they should work. PERIOD!

Rich, I KNOW exactly what and who your talking about. Thats why I said not to let the die maker spec the die. If they use the same specs for every different case..... RUN!

 

[elkaholic]

Who is Ben?

Hornadys custom die contact

 

[elkaholic]

Rich, I KNOW exactly what and who your talking about. Thats why I said not to let the die maker spec the die. If they use the same specs for every case..... RUN.

Amen! And when you do spec it,make sure they DO IT!!
No excuses!
Die making isnt easy, I get it, but its what separates the men from the boys

 

[Wild_Bill]

A way to help is getting the internals of your FLS die nickel Teflon coated then polished. I have done this on multiple dies to reduce them slightly. However if the dimension you are trying to achieve is smaller than the Web to allow for springbok you will fracture the base of the cases and you will never recover that brass. I have seen new 308 Lapua brass oversized after the first load and it was trash
Your chamber must be sized correctly for the brass you wish to use and then the die must match the other 2.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Amen! And when you do spec it,make sure they DO IT!!
No excuses!
Die making isnt easy, I get it, but its what separates the men from the boys

I was told my chambers were .004" undersized. JGS apparently made me 4 reamers .004" undersized exactly. Ya right. Im dumb, just not that dumb. Mistakes are human, lies are unforgivable.

 

[Pdvdh]

Rich, I KNOW exactly what and who your talking about. That's why I said not to let the die maker spec the die. If they use the same specs for every different case..... RUN!

I've got a pretty good idea. I explained the exact problem multiple times. Received three different full length resizing dies, one after the other, after the other, all identical clones.

Oh yeah... In my case, it was _hidden...

 

[Jud96]

What would make the dies crack if you made them smaller to size down further? I don't understand that part. Thanks guys

 

[P7M13]

Thats the key, you need to figure out the right specs first. Do not rely on the die makers to spec them.

I got sick of die makers passing the buck all the time amd offering to fix THEIR problems with more $$$.

@Alex Wheeler , thanks for starting this thread, very informative.
I've not encountered this problem because I don't push my loading levels to the extreme.
That said, I have observed very different "spring back" between brass brands, and I'm just talking about shoulder and neck. Have also observed dies that are "out of round", confirmed by rolling a case on my tooling block.

I wouldn't blame it on the manufacturer. Many people here push the limits of their rifles, and messieurs Sherman and Wheeler specifically cater to that group. When you're at that level, and your rifle costs north of $5K, custom dies to your sepecification are in order.
I believe there are many sources of information on *how* to specify dies for your chamber.

I used to design precision machinery for stamping and roll forming. The parts are not often thought of as "precision" but when your part has to conform to a variance of +/- 0.0015" after cutoff (a flying cutoff, no less), you gain an appreciation for "spring back" and your cutoff clamps look like a very distorted version of the final product shape.
Change the composition of the steel, and you start all over again....

Same goes for brass in cartridges.

 

[Wild_Bill]

The other think that a lot of people overlook is how to adjust a FLS die. Most manufacturers say wind down to the shell holder and go for it.

This is in 99% of cases the worst thing to do.just by changing from a say one shot spray lube to imperial sizing wax headspace can be changed

If a die isn't slowly wound down towards the shell holder and then cases sized and measured to the desired shoulder bump problems can occur.
I have seen dies wound down to the shell holder and the cases would not chamber. When the cases were measured they were .012" shorter than fired cases so the shooter went to a small based die and the same issue arose.
We obtained once fired brass and his standard FLS die and adjusted it to .002" shoulder bump and the die worked.

If the brass is over sized as mentioned it can fracture at the base and that can not be un done.

Always set up dies correctly with regard to shoulder bump the case should grow slightly before it is bumped back.

If the die is set correctly to the desired shoulder bump and the case won't chamber then look at a tighter die, smaller brass or a larger chamber base.

 

[Pdvdh]

Got nothing to do with Sherman Magnums or those that shoot Sherman Magnums.

The thread title is PRC. And PRC chambers cut to a spec that is too small in diameter at the case web is the crux of the problem.
Not a Wheeler or Sherman problem. Wheeler's the guy identifying the problem, and the cure.

Any reloader can increase case pressure in any cartridge.

@Alex Wheeler , thanks for starting this thread, very informative.
I've not encountered this problem because I don't push my loading levels to the extreme.
That said, I have observed very different "spring back" between brass brands, and I'm just talking about shoulder and neck. Have also observed dies that are "out of round", confirmed by rolling a case on my tooling block.

I wouldn't blame it on the manufacturer. Many people here push the limits of their rifles, and messieurs Sherman and Wheeler specifically cater to that group. When you're at that level, and your rifle costs north of $5K, custom dies to your specifications are in order.
I believe there are many sources of information on *how* to specify dies for your chamber.

I used to design precision machinery for stamping and roll forming. The parts are not often thought of as "precision" but when your part has to conform to a variance of +/- 0.0015" after cutoff (a flying cutoff, no less), you gain an appreciation for "spring back" and your cutoff clamps look like a very distorted version of the final product shape.
Change the composition of the steel, and you start all over again....

Same goes for brass in cartridges.

 

[elkaholic]

Sherman isn't having problems, at least for the time being, I could see alex causing problems though