The “It’s just a hunting rifle” Saying Bugs Me

[Ranger1994]

Sir may I respectfully disagree? That .25MOA rig and the 2MOA rig both have the same probability of missing. In my humble opinion. As my dad used to say, it's the nut pulling the trigger that will miss. If the shooter doesn't know their limitations then it doesn't matter how good the equipment. If I'm shooting 100 yrds, both rigs will probably hit, if I try 1000 yrds then both will miss, no probably about it, I dont know how to shoot at that distance. So if shooter knows their limits both rigs will hit the intended target with the same degree of probability. But both rigs are just hunting rifles, a tool used to harvest animals. Both can cost the same, and I've seen some 2MOA "hunting rifles" that cost a ton more$$ than many so called long range rigs. Again they are all tools. Thanks for allowing me to share my opinion.

I certainly appreciate that and you are right, I shouldn't equate wounding an animal to a 2 MOA rifle to wounding an animal. I am not saying I can't would an animal with my best rifle. It has happened. I am saying that, all else being equal, the .25 MOA rifle in your example has a lower probability of wounding an animal than the 2 MOA rifle.

 

[JohnWess]

Sir may I respectfully disagree? That .25MOA rig and the 2MOA rig both have the same probability of missing. In my humble opinion. As my dad used to say, it's the nut pulling the trigger that will miss. If the shooter doesn't know their limitations then it doesn't matter how good the equipment. If I'm shooting 100 yrds, both rigs will probably hit, if I try 1000 yrds then both will miss, no probably about it, I dont know how to shoot at that distance. So if shooter knows their limits both rigs will hit the intended target with the same degree of probability. But both rigs are just hunting rifles, a tool used to harvest animals. Both can cost the same, and I've seen some 2MOA "hunting rifles" that cost a ton more$$ than many so called long range rigs. Again they are all tools. Thanks for allowing me to share my opinion.

I do respect that opinion and thank you for sharing.

 

[JohnWess]

This thought is forien to me. If I felt that way I would buy organic pork and beef. When I fire I want to see success through the scope.

And yes my rifles are just hunting guns.

I certainly want to see success through the scope as well. I go hunting for a lot of reasons, but the end goal is always to harvest. With that being said, the harvest is a very bitter sweet moment for me.

 

[memtb]

This thought is forien to me. If I felt that way I would buy organic pork and beef. When I fire I want to see success through the scope.

And yes my rifles are just hunting guns.

My wife was once confronted by a female co-worker, that asked her "how she can you look into the eyes of a deer and shoot it"? My wife's answer, "I don't look into the eyes, I look where I want to put the bullet"! memtb

 

[Ranger1994]

John what your feeling is called RESPECT, respect for a living creature that you personally took their life. As I age I began to notice that as well. Successful hunting is not always equated to the death of an animal...... oh wait, yes it is, what was I thinking. But harvesting that button buck, or that perfect 10 pointer, or a nice old fat doe, I always thank my Lord for allowing me to have venison on my table. Thankfulness and respect. Then dig in and enjoy!!!!

 

[kukusya]

Since everyone agrees on topics. How about to make recommended list of factory hunting/target rifle and scope. It's simple just make a list. It would be really helpful for other guys like me. And illuminate hell a lot postings with questions what to get. I will start and we all can working out. 3-5 rifles and 3-5 scope per category.
Rifles:
Bellow 1k
Tikka
X-Bolt Stalker A-TACS AU Suppressor Ready
Savage LR
Weatherby/Howa

Low 1k
Christensen Mesa
Montana rifle co
Kimber classic
Bergara Highlander/Mointain

Bellow 2k
Seeking PH2
Fierce Fury
Christensen Ridgeline

Above 2K
Christensen Travers
Fierce Edge
Cooper

Scopes below 1k
Vortex Viper PST II
Zeiss V4
SWFA
Leupold VX5 hd

Low 1K
Nightforce SHV F1
SWFA HD

below 2k

above 2k

we can add calibers too
Non magnum
6.5 creed 7-08 270 30-06
Magnum
6.5 Prc 7mm rem mag 300 win 300 prc

 

[idcwby]

As I've been the reading all the good posts on this thread, I remembered something. When I mentioned about a rifle getting scratched and dinged up, those are reminders of good stories that can be relived when you see them on the rifle again.

idcwby

 

[ATH]

If you were to wound an animal with your open sight 30-30 don't you wish you would have grabbed your scoped bolt action whatever that your much more precise with?

Nope. If I'm carrying an open sight rifle it's because I'm expecting sub-150 yard shots only, probably in cover, and that's the right tool for the job. A bolt action with a high power scope is NOT.

The stand I sat in today had a probable shot distance of 40-50 yards with a maximum of under 100. Why on earth would I want scoped bolt action in that environment? A .25 MOA scoped bolt action is actually a handicap compared to the open sight 1.5 MOA 35Rem Marlin 336 I carried.

This is a long range site, and I'll agree that for anything I consider "long range" I've got a scoped bolt action I've tuned to under .5 MOA. But that doesn't mean that's the best tool for every environment.

As for "only a hunting rifle", as applied to "long range", my longest range rifle (338 Edge) will hold right with my F-Class rifle. My other two "long range" rifles are just perceptibly less accurate but still sub-.5 MOA.

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

...
My new rifle, first time in the field, was in first in...followed by me and the pack! I got up, poring dirty water from my new rifle. My first though, well it's broken-in now! It's not been completely submerged since, but has seen it's share of dust, mud, rain, snow and rocks (sheep hunting).

While I don't hunt quite as hard as I used to, my rifle continues to be used but not (intentionally) abused! memtb

Took a new Remington M700 .30-06 elk hunting for the first time. Coming down the NE corner of Bears Ears mountain I took three separate falls in the boulder field - lucky I didn't break an ankle or leg. Got to the bottom and my 'new' M700 looked worse than the Ruger 7mm RM I had hunted elk with for over 20 years at the time.

A safe queen it is not. Had one of those (a Ruger #1 in .280 Rem that was just too pretty to take elk hunting. Sold it and bout a Hawkeye All Weather .280 Rem instead. No regrets.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Sir may I respectfully disagree? That .25MOA rig and the 2MOA rig both have the same probability of missing. In my humble opinion. As my dad used to say, it's the nut pulling the trigger that will miss. If the shooter doesn't know their limitations then it doesn't matter how good the equipment. If I'm shooting 100 yrds, both rigs will probably hit, if I try 1000 yrds then both will miss, no probably about it, I dont know how to shoot at that distance. So if shooter knows their limits both rigs will hit the intended target with the same degree of probability. But both rigs are just hunting rifles, a tool used to harvest animals. Both can cost the same, and I've seen some 2MOA "hunting rifles" that cost a ton more$$ than many so called long range rigs. Again they are all tools. Thanks for allowing me to share my opinion.

When I went hunting for my first elk I had aa gaurantee 2MOA rifle. I knew if I had an absolute solid rest I would hit within 4" of the aiming point at 400 yards.

As life had it I ranged one at an even 400 yards. There was a berm to stretch out on so the reticle was as sready as a bench rest. I dialed and held center of chest. The 160 partition took out the top of the heart.

Later I installed an adjustable muzzle brake. That rifle fired 1" at 300 yards regularly after that. My success rate did not improve.

 

[JohnWess]

Nope. If I'm carrying an open sight rifle it's because I'm expecting sub-150 yard shots only, probably in cover, and that's the right tool for the job. A bolt action with a high power scope is NOT.

The stand I sat in today had a probable shot distance of 40-50 yards with a maximum of under 100. Why on earth would I want scoped bolt action in that environment? A .25 MOA scoped bolt action is actually a handicap compared to the open sight 1.5 MOA 35Rem Marlin 336 I carried.

This is a long range site, and I'll agree that for anything I consider "long range" I've got a scoped bolt action I've tuned to under .5 MOA. But that doesn't mean that's the best tool for every environment.

As for "only a hunting rifle", as applied to "long range", my longest range rifle (338 Edge) will hold right with my F-Class rifle. My other two "long range" rifles are just perceptibly less accurate but still sub-.5 MOA.

I will take that. And I stand corrected.

I guess I personally would rather use a low power scope on a bolt gun in that situation. However, I would be a complete hypocrite if I told you to use something that is less comfortable to you just because it is more comfortable to me.

 

[memtb]

As I've been the reading all the good posts on this thread, I remembered something. When I mentioned about a rifle getting scratched and dinged up, those are reminders of good stories that can be relived when you see them on the rifle again.

idcwby

Often referred to as.... "Character"! memtb

 

[ATH]

I will take that. And I stand corrected.

I guess I personally would rather use a low power scope on a bolt gun in that situation. However, I would be a complete hypocrite if I told you to use something that is less comfortable to you just because it is more comfortable to me.

Appreciated.

I've got several such rifles, with Williams rear ghost sights and fire front sights I'm punching 1-1.5" groups at 50 yards and 2" groups at 100 yards. If a bad shot is made, it's not due to a lack of precision of the rifle. It's all on the operator. A scope is not going to make a difference. Perhaps there is a difference between people whose experience is primarily scopes, and people like myself raised primarily on open sights and having spent many years learning to use them with precision. I only transitioned to scopes when I had the need to start shooting beyond 150 yards.

The difference a scope will make is issues finding the target and failing to take in the total situation due to limited visibility...such as twigs and brush which could deflect the shot. Don't ask how I know that...

 

[Don A Parsons]

The custom and factory rifle world we live in today offers some pretty fancy rigs... Some of them Boarder the precision category...

Even my fake Remington Model 700 M-40 A 1 in 6.5 A-square,,, A 12 lb tack driver... The semi drop pistol grip is what I like...

6.5 A-Square
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7jcw4948cnndFSib6

There are some mighty fine rigs out there,,, one would think that the majority of them can really shoot some spectacular groups...

Once in a blue moon we see the odd fellow show up at a F Class shoot with a hunting rifle,,, same for some PRS matches as well... Most of these folks don't score overly well,,, mostly due to not spending enough time practicing threw out the year...

I'm doing a F Class shoot with my custom made hunting rifle next year because it's a shooter,,, hopefully I'm up to task that day...

400 and 800 meter,,, if I get lucky I might pull off a half way win in the middle... Ha...

Years getting rifles planted and trigger control with reading the ever changing winds makes it happen...

Something like this is much easier to do with my F Class rig,,, but I'm up for the challange...

The word accurate-shooting-rifle comes to mind,,, a well dialed in package in hands that are up to task...

Cheers from the North...