The “It’s just a hunting rifle” Saying Bugs Me

[Chase723]

While I get your point, I think it's all relative. Frankly, a 2 MOA rifle is completely acceptable for deer at 200 yards and elk at 300-400 yards. A 6 MOA gun is also acceptable for 100 yards. While we all want to shoot them exactly where we aim the reality is that hearts, lungs, etc aren't a 1/2". Most of the guys who say that also aren't practicing to take shots beyond 2-300 yards...but reality is also that probably >90% of all game are shot within 200-300 yards. So, while the notion of it makes the most precise of us cringe, the truth is that the statement is often completely valid.

Personally, if a rifle doesn't shoot 1/2 MOA or better consistently I don't even bother with it, but that's because I love long range shooting and hunting, and it's a necessity...and admittedly as long as a rifle is a true sub 1 MOA gun, it can actually be quite capable to 1000 yards. Most people simply don't care, though. Don't let it get under your skin. Just outfit yourself with the right equipment, practice, and put your time in finding your quarry, because when that Booner steps out at 600 for you it'll be an opportunity. For them, it'll be a dream.

 

[Joefrazell]

People have to look at there setup and set realistic expectations and limitations. What bugs me is when people are willing to shoot at a certain distance that they've never put in any work at practicing at.

 

[blacktail 8541]

It's just a hunting rifle phrase doesn't bother me much unless it is used in the connotation of " it's good enough , dead deer ". The game deserve our very best.
In my mind that means the best preparation possible. Load development , practice is part of the preparation. I love the thrill of the hunt and spotting game. The kill is just a necessary part of the hunt if I want food on the table that I appreciate very much. After the kill is where the real work begins.

 

[jarheadhunter]

I think your reading too much into it. While yes accuracy is important hitting a X or hitting an elk in the vitals is a huge difference. Your talking 15" of vitals to hit. While yes maybe I didn't hit him right in the heart, but guess what I got two lungs or a lung and liver.

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

Many shooters I've seen could take a .25MOA rifle and turn in 3MOA groups as their best effort due to lack of training, discipline, or whatever.

Chase 723 has it right. The kill zone on any game animal is much larger than 1/2", so a hunting rifle doesn't need the accuracy that a match rifle needs.

That said, if my bolts won't do **** close to MOA I lose interest in them. Dad gave me a Ruger American 30-06 that refused to shoot better than 2MOA and that only on a good day. i tried 7 or 8 different types of factory ammo in it. After Dad passed I traded the American and good riddance.

1-1/2 MOA or better is what I like with my lever guns and 2MOA is marginally acceptable.

 

[TangoOscarMike]

I remember as a kid I had a Savage 99 in .308 Winchester. It wore some variety of cheap 3-9 power scope and I was tickled pink. We used to shoot at empty cigarette packs stapled to wooden paint stirring sticks jammed into the berm at the range. If we could hit those we figured it was good enough at 100 yards. I wish that I was that happy about all of the things in my life now as I was about hitting that cigarette pack then LOL.

 

[hunter67wa]

A Man has to know his limits!

 

[GCarlton53]

1.5moa is ok. I think of a hunting rifle as a more or less a sporter stock, 11lb or less. Box stock rem 700 or winchester

 

[DJ Fergus]

I honestly want some feedback from you ladies and gents to see if I'm the only one that feels this way.

It really bugs me to hear/read the saying "It's only for hunting" or something similar. I see this a lot when people are talking about optics, rifles, and accuracy. It seems to me that because something is used for hunting, there is a lower standard for degree of precision than say a PRS style match or shooting steel long range. Now, let me be clear I understand that someone shooting deer out to 200 yards does not require a 0.25 MOA rifle, in fact a consistent 2 MOA is probably fine (although I wouldn't go any bigger). However, this forum is called long range hunting and that is what a lot of us like to do here.

Now, I love the sport of hunting. I know I am doing good for conservation and I love the meat that comes from it. But, to be honest, the actual moment of the kill is my least favorite of the entire process. You can call me soft or whatever, but, I get emotional every single time I take an animals life and I feel terrible if an animal has to suffer any longer than it should. therefore, I require a much greater degree of precision out of my hunting equipment than I do with my plinking equipment.

If I miss a piece of steel at 1000 yards and lose a $100-500 dollar check because I lost a match, sure I'll be upset, but I'll get 'em next time! If I miss a piece of steel out plinking, jack another one in and let it fly. But, what if I shoot an elk in the guts at 600 yards and the thing runs for two miles, dies 16 hours later and goes to waste because I couldn't find it? Shame on me, that's what. I understand that an event like this is part of hunting and sometimes crap like that happens. But, if it happens because I required a lower degree of precision because it's "just a hunting rifle" I have completely failed at my duty of being a humane hunter and conservationist.

I am sorry to go an a rant. I would love to hear your opinions. No offense will be taken if you feel I am wrong.

John

It kinda bugs my when I hear people say: the gun can shoot better than I can. Well if it can shoot 1/4 moa and that fellow can only managed 1.5 moa out of it, he probably don't even need to admit to anyone he even shot the rifle. And most of the time the fellow that says this is saying it about a factory rifle with factory ammo of the first & only box he's tried in the rifle. But what it really tells me is the fellow wants to blindly think the rifle is really accurate when he really has no idea of what it can or can't do. Its a dead give away statement that shows he really didn't put much time into the rifle and wants someone to think he got a special one from the factory where everything went together just right on it but he's just not a good enough shot to take full advantage of this special piece. 1/4 moa factory rifles shooting factory ammo don't grow on trees. I ended the conversation the last time a fellow that said " it can shoot better than I can". It just tells me the fellow don't have a clue. I've spent too much time behind the trigger and a loading press to buy that bologna.

 

[Riflehunter1776]

It could be worse. You could live in PA.

with deer hunting season opening on Saturday (curse the PGC, it should be Monday), all the stores are full of guys who are just finally getting around to buying their license. Many of them are reluctantly buying a new rifle because they took out the one that they last bothered to shoot back in high school, the last time they got up the motivation to go hunting, and found that it is rusted shut.

So the phone call to the gun store goes like this:
I need a new gun. what's the cheapest thing you've got. WOW. $375?!? Thats the cheapest!? Ok. That comes with a scope, right? NO????!
so they come in, and try to buy the $10 crossman bb gun plastic tube "scope", and after an argument settle on the $50 Alpha junk.

So we have a license, a piece of garbage rifle and a $50 scope. bore sighted. No intention to go to any range and sight it in. If they are lucky, they remembered to buy a "box of bullets". Good enough. Then they are going to head into the woods and start shooting. After seeing what is in store for opening day, I think there are going to be more hunting accidents this year than there has been in many years.

So yeah, there are plenty of guys who buy garbage and say it's good enough. Not everyone loves the sport, not everyone practices all year for their opportunity to take a buck, not everyone is diligent enough to make sure all the variables are covered. Face it, many people just don't care, about most things. Should be a great opening day.

 

[WildRose]

I honestly want some feedback from you ladies and gents to see if I'm the only one that feels this way.

It really bugs me to hear/read the saying "It's only for hunting" or something similar. I see this a lot when people are talking about optics, rifles, and accuracy. It seems to me that because something is used for hunting, there is a lower standard for degree of precision than say a PRS style match or shooting steel long range. Now, let me be clear I understand that someone shooting deer out to 200 yards does not require a 0.25 MOA rifle, in fact a consistent 2 MOA is probably fine (although I wouldn't go any bigger). However, this forum is called long range hunting and that is what a lot of us like to do here.

Now, I love the sport of hunting. I know I am doing good for conservation and I love the meat that comes from it. But, to be honest, the actual moment of the kill is my least favorite of the entire process. You can call me soft or whatever, but, I get emotional every single time I take an animals life and I feel terrible if an animal has to suffer any longer than it should. therefore, I require a much greater degree of precision out of my hunting equipment than I do with my plinking equipment.

If I miss a piece of steel at 1000 yards and lose a $100-500 dollar check because I lost a match, sure I'll be upset, but I'll get 'em next time! If I miss a piece of steel out plinking, jack another one in and let it fly. But, what if I shoot an elk in the guts at 600 yards and the thing runs for two miles, dies 16 hours later and goes to waste because I couldn't find it? Shame on me, that's what. I understand that an event like this is part of hunting and sometimes crap like that happens. But, if it happens because I required a lower degree of precision because it's "just a hunting rifle" I have completely failed at my duty of being a humane hunter and conservationist.

I am sorry to go an a rant. I would love to hear your opinions. No offense will be taken if you feel I am wrong.

John

I'd say you probably here that most from no hunters who spend their time with a rifle (if any at all) in various competitive venues.

To a true sportsman/hunter getting a clean, quick, humane kill every time you pull the trigger is a matter of pride and honor.

For someone who relies on the meat from the game they shoot every year to feed a family it gets deadly serious because if they miss or lose a deer, elk, moose etc it may have a serious impact on their ability to feed that family for the year.

Those who share our position already understand, those who don't most likely have no desire to.

 

[WildRose]

It depends on your use. By your definition I could never use my open sighted Savage 99 or Marlin 30-30. Because it would never live up to your requirements for group size. But I can consistently fill my tags with them every year.

Set realistic expectations and limitations for the tool you are using. A rifle shooting 3moa should not be used on an 800 yard shot. That's a bigger, and different, issue than a rifle being "just a hunting rifle"

I enjoy many of my hunting rifles that won't necessarily print a tiny little group. But I can still fill tags with them every year.

-Jake

As long as you know the limitations of those rifles and don't exceed them that's fine.

This season I've been carrying both a muzzle loader and a center fire rifle to the blind.

I bought the ML a few years ago for a potential ML elk hunt I have yet to go on and decided to give it a job this year. Based on my practice with it to this point I'm limiting it's use to 250yds and should anything come along that just really needs to be shot further out I'll have the long gun as well.

So far it's been a great combination.

I also used to "brush hunt" a good bit and carried an 1895 marlin in 45/70 specifically for that purpose but I'd never even attempt to make a 300yds shot on game with it unless I was starving.

 

[Tlr155]

It means different things, to different people

 

[MachV]

Only a hunting rifle
If you hear me say it the unit probably has a 3-9 scope, a thin barrel, ugly as sin and a great thing to have for shots out to 500 yards! The new 708 falls into this category, the thin barrel is good for three rounds and the 3-9 scope is only good for 1moa with my eyes but god only knows where the rounds go after three.
A heavy barreled, high powered scoped, sub moa unit is for killin varmints and long range shooting. Its second perpose is hunting because I aint carring this thing very far from the truck.
Was at the range a while back with the two cz 527s 223 and 6.5 Grendel. The 223 was having a good day and threw everything into 1/2 inch.the Grendel was being its typical self and grouping 1-2 inches. The guy beside me commented that the Grendel was not good enough to be a hunting rifle. I laughed and said no critter had yet to complain, for whatever reason the Grendel hates the range as bad as it does critters= it aint missed one yet;-)