TARGET BULLETS ARE NOT HUNTING BULLETS!

[Mike Matteson]

Maybe you're on the wrong forum? Read the name of this forum…

If you can't kill the animal @ 50yds, you can't kill them at 1000yds. I have shot animals from all directions. Almost everyone of them went down. wIthin a few yards. I have done some poor placement and had to track them. I have looked at hundreds of animals that have been shot and hanging. Ask what they were using. I note the areas of blood shot. There a lot of bullets I wouldn't and don't use.

 

[xsn10s]

The most significant factor is always the NUT behind the trigger. I remember how many times people complained about Berger not having an exit wound, but their game was DRT. And when I try to explain that Berger bullets are fragmenting bullets and need not have an exit wound to be effective, they get mad. The burden of bullet choice for the intended purpose and understanding the bullet design falls to the NUT behind the trigger.

Berger's ability to be effective without a pass-through is one of the features I switch; it reduces the risk of shooting an unintended target, i.e., behind the game. There is a video out on the web that shows a NUT killing a game behind his intended target.

 

[memtb]

Feenix, you are absolutely correct with your statement.

It is of utmost importance for the shooter to know what is beyond his/her target. It is also of utmost importance for the shooter of a easily expanding bullet that sheds a great deal of it's weight to not attempt a steeply angled shot on a big game, something larger than the aforementioned 100 lb. doe!

Perhaps both shooters should not be caught-up in the emotion of the moment, be cognizant of the bullet they're using ….and not shoot if, over penetration could be an issue, or if outside the design parameters of the chosen bullet.

These are the responsibilities of the "nut behind the trigger"! memtb

 

[FEENIX]

If you look at Nathan fosters work even in a hunting bullet line like the sierra game king there can be a big difference in bullet performance in certain calibers and weights. Point being target and hunting is just a name put on a bullet. They are all still cup and core bullets with varying designs and performance.

He's the man!

 

[FEENIX]

View attachment 550044

I am way behind on memes.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

We all know "target bullets", whether Berger, Hornady or whatever company, are the most accurate. Especially at long distance. No question about that.

This is confirmed on every LR hunting show, highlight clip, forum post etc.
It can be 579, 821 or 1135yds, matters none, the bullet always lands in the exact spot desired.

For my mind, and I am likely not alone, seeing real world results that don't make the highlight reels would be of great value. It never hurts to see the result, good or bad.

Having a little wiggle room makes any hunter feel better about his choice. Placement is #1 I fully agree.

 

[heat_and_fam]

Gday


Give me time man I will show you that a pill do not all kill yet can strike vitals
& this will show scar tissue in lungs & recovered pill so I guess that is the vitals also go search bow hunting not a bow hunter myself but mates are & evidence their also plus other shooting incidents on people as well as critters


Now back to our wager & why I'm so confident I done extensive testing for a organisation in USA as they needed to have a pill that wouldn't exit a as a exiting pill was not a option for them
These tests took many months to complete all documentation was thoroughly examined by them & eventually the pill was found

Yes I know my mate & I know it extremely well so let me know when you have sufficient funds & will legally put this in lawyers hands to make sure the money is held in trust for your offer to take place

No I'm not being childish
I will once again state factual evidence to hopefully get people to rethink their options as if they are on the edge like the 162eldm it will eventually fail & that is not good for the critter or the individual & take that a step further yes every pill will fail but we can lesson the risk by not choosing the 223 &50 gr option & go with a more reliable combo & as stated the 180 eldm may be that better option vrs the 162eldm or something else I've got no idea as I've not used that 180 pill

So I ask you to examine the factual evidence put forward do your research not blinkers on & then you'll be in a better position to offer more propelling advice



The op can answer for himself im sure he's capable
Cheers

I'm shooting a 6 creed with 115 DTACs at elk…chew on that for a while. Have shot a few "hunting" bullets at animals at well, funny, the animals don't seem to know the difference, they all expire and I pack the meat home to my family, funny how that works, huh? You enjoy that testing, your frozen carcasses, ballistic gel, etc. I'm more of a real world results kinda guy myself. No sense beating my head against the wall talking to one of the thousands of self proclaimed "experts" on the internet…you guys are a dime a dozen to the point it's comical.

Someone tells me you're the hammer tester…that explains a lot. Take care now.

 

[xsn10s]

I am way behind on memes.

I couldn't decided which was better.

 

[cabelasken]

A few years back I was talking to a range rat that was a superb shooter judging from his targets and equipment. But he had just lost his second Colorado bull - both due to lack of bullet performance on game. He refused to switch from the target bullets he was using because of 1/4" groups it was producing at 100 yds. He said both bulls were struck at 600+ yds mid body in the crease behind the shoulder. Both guides confirmed the hits with spotting scopes. I have had two premium hunting bullets from a well known maker come apart like a grenade. 3 to 5 grain fragments were found throughout the body. Fortunately both penetrated just enough to drop both animals on the spot. After the second one happened with the same bullet, a call to the customer service dept of that bullet maker confirmed an issue with that lot number. Of course they offered to replace all that I had left, but I used up the 15 or 20 left in the box for practice.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I've got a personal friend that lost a Stone from a 300yd shot. This ram was seen by other hunting parties and the guide himself at later dates with blood on both sides of his rib cage. He lived through it, the hunter wasn't charged for the kill and gets to return to hopefully get his sheep. He will be using a new projectile, that he's put through the ringer on deer and pigs since the unfortunate occurrence.
If you really want to know the bullet used Im well aware of the weight and design, and it has "hunting" written beautifully on the box.
I loaded them for him in a rifle that is exceptionally accurate. He had several minutes to take the shot, lying on rocks and a pack. What a nightmare!

 

[fordy]

Gday reelamin
thanks for the kind words sir or should I say thanks from one old bugger to another

I've tried to keep a low key throughout my life from what I've shot to how I can shoot I'm not worried about the naysayers as they are set in their ways I will keep stating factual information so the next generation or those that are reading & not posting just think a little more on their chosen combo

You sir are one I trusted to give that information out & glad you did your research
I do hope our paths cross oneday & preferably around a campfire
still love learning & teaching & you sir I look forward to learning more off

Thankyou once again

@fordy Having been able to talk to Fordy, studied the area he lived in, visited right next to him, studied the area I was in, and read up on what he told me. If Fordy said he tested and has experience with a bullet I absolutely would listen and implement his advice or suggestions. I was never lucky enough to actually have a conversation with someone like Fordy and if I was to ignore what I heard from him I would be STUPID!!!

Cheers Fordy

 

[memtb]

If you look at Nathan fosters work even in a hunting bullet line like the sierra game king there can be a big difference in bullet performance in certain calibers and weights. Point being target and hunting is just a name put on a bullet. They are all still cup and core bullets with varying designs and performance.

cajun, I had bad experiences with Sierra Gameking .375 / 300 grain boat tails back in the late '80's. They came apart on every big game animal that I shot, never even giving an exit …..and my game wasn't that large.

I called to and spoke with a representative from Sierra and received a long laundry list of the reasons for the failures…..all BS. They never offered to replace them!

I was told by Bob Milek (lived in Thermopolis) to try the Hornady 270 SP. A great bullet that served me well! I shot it into a test medium side by side the 300 Sierra….the Hornady gave a perfect "classic" mushroom. The Sierra seemed to almost evaporate…..able to find only very small pieces of the bullet.

Craig Boddington, told me that some of the early production 300's had issues…..he said that they improved upon them!

However, other people have had good luck with other Sierra's……I've sworn to never use another. I never missed not trying any of their bullets again! memtb

 

[FireFlyFishing]

Food for thought.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

FFF, isn't that BC too low for high mortality ?