Highcountrybucks
Active Member
Researching for a new custom build system. Would you mind sharing the specifics on the rifle in the photo and weight if you know it.
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TARGET BULLETS ARE NOT HUNTING BULLETS!
- Thread starter Ucsdryder
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Huntnful
Well-Known Member
It's a 300 Norma Mag Improved. And this one was pretty heavy at 12lbs scoped. Bat action, benchmark barrel & AG stock.
The original Swampworks was sold a few years back, after Swampy's passing. While I was able to get my hands on one the the new offerings(kindly sent by one of our members), the construction(jacket design/jacket thickness, shape, etc.) of the current 6.5/140gr bullet…which was not the same as Swampy's original design that I still have ample supply. I have yet to shoot/test any of the offerings from the new company(JLK) , and, I'm unaware of their current status.
jimmybrost
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2007
- Messages
- 40
Lmao. Ima go shoot some prairie dogs, to practice up for my long range chicken hunt!Who shoots chickens with target bullets?!
Gday
First off the naming of target bullet or hunting bullet is irrelevant as it's the way the pill actually preforms on game terminally that is the key so I don't take any notice of these wording on the packaging these days yep terminal is what it's about & not just a dead critter well for me anyway
What I've witnessed over the numbers I've shot is the most consistent pill is a pill that gives 2 holes not one !!!!
REGARDLESS of pill brand or what it's called
You can also take that out of context so I'll add the caveat to the 2 holes
It's
The triangle that a few of us now talk about which needs to be followed ( also advisable to be followed with one hole ) or the 2 holes scenario can be a very poor performer & usually is
That is from recovery ( impact to tip ) to lost animals & I've had a few over my life
Now if we understand how a bullet works we are part of the way there but it's also understanding the pills limits ( velocity window also comes in here ) & this I read a couple of posts where a few people get this & give great advice on where & what to use/avoid so I won't parrot them
I use to use dual loads as a Band-Aid to give me more insurance but you needed to be careful on that as also had issues but bandaids once again gave us better overall results
I also see some who obviously are better shots than me & can place with accuracy ea & every time so the following dosent apply to those as is irrelevant to you lot so please move on to another post
For the guys like me who don't like Murphy or a bingo raffle while also can't guarantee the shot is on the money or angle will be like we believe or what we would like ea & every time
I'd suggest one looks @ the following of a pills traits that has shown to be lacking on the critter it impacted
Once again no need to worry if it's a target or hunting bullet as this is a design from the jacket thickness to the alloy or actual alloy , hp size , tip design & the list goes on
What I have found is by watching a pill's behaviour & more importantly failures you work out a pills limits pretty quickly but with the caveat you need critter numbers to work that out with any certainty
So yes a pill that is named a target bullet can pencil as per this pic
Note that was first shot being pointed out
Second shot same pill & roughly same impact velocity secured critter after blowing a coke can hole in the far side of this critter & sorry I don't have those pics as that was a longtime ago & was no where near thorough enough on pictures & had limited pictures that could be taken ( disposable cameras &35mm ) but on autopsy results it was cleanly observed & eventually worked out it was in the transition zone of the pill in question & by watching this pill over a high sample size of critters that was well in the 4 digits I worked out a little more on that pills weaknesses , tinkered with it got better results & eventually moved on to other pills yet it gave draw dropping preformance when all went well
The next one here's a pill that blew up on a shoulder , the following year deer was shot again recovered after it healed ( I got parts of the projectile out of that wound ) & I also put up on a different thread another recovered pill from a mate that did better on penetration but same thing , deer lived healed up & taken @ a later date .
totally agree that's a extremely small % but the non recovered ones are hard to work out lol on what actually happened & why I've tried to find out on on carcasses that smell a lot some , you do some you don't others but once again numbers help show pattern's
Now I can't guarantee what pill did this but I'm going to say I know with a fair amount of certainty I do as the group of hunters I shot with were the only ones who shot that particular property which had extremely low deer numbers & comprising of around 80,000 acres & the deer were contained from a vegetation/habitat /topography situation to part of the property which also was land locked on one side due the ocean & only 2 of us shot deer& used the same pill
The next series of pictures screenshot off my tv , off one of my old video's ( please excuse the quality ) are of 2 goats out of 41 total taken in 11 minutes &51 seconds from first shot to last ( well off the video counter & more to follow on why I put time up )
These 2 are where we start to learn more of a pill's limitations NOT the other 39 as they were dispatched well with approximately a 0-120 yard impact to tip , most were bangflop due too cns or close to it
So the white one first
He was apparently dead well so my mate & I thought & on the video on the shot @ the caramel one obscured by the tree
the white one got back up
& commenced to walk up hill ( which is never good) & was soon dispatched again with another shot as per pic
First shot failed to get enough penetration & gave spine shock which it staggered him for a bit but then fell where this pic is for which @ roughly 8min later the caramel goat was shot & the white one got back up & dispatched cleanly this time
This smaller caramel goat
was also pill failure for a different reason & that's snapping of the tip leaving a nosed over deflected tumbling pill & also required a second shot
Now 4 other goats also required a second shot & 1 a third but it was placement issues not a poor preforming pill
these bad ones & a few others were autopsied & the mate I was with ( rest his sole ) started to explain what when wrong , yes I was green way back then but my journey was really only just beginning into why these failures existed,
oh how I was schooled on what actually happened
Yep this muppet learnt a lot from that one trip but still very green
191 goats from around 20 to just over 600 yards for the day with 6 misses 11 goats got 2 shots 1 , 3shots &1 , 5 shots with 3 failures so yes on a failure base that's a very low % & no lost animals
Individually some will accept that as I did back then & thought I was better & I could just place my shots better for that outcome not to occur
Ha still I had more to learn
2 days later
After reluctantly agreeing to using a different pill ( dare I say with a low bc pill ) that my mate had a very good supply of we set out again
153 goats same ranges with 7 misses 7 required a 2nd shot 2 required 3 shots & 2,4 shots but not a failure oh & a red deer yearling for another weeks meals
No lost animals either
Impact to tip was around 10 yards less on average yet I still didn't see the wood in the trees & reverted back to my go to pill but the seed was set
I've lost animals to the first &3rd day pills just not on those days & had many days no lost critters either but it does happen but definitely can be lessoned imo & historically the 2nd pill proved over many critters it was the superior pill i just failed to clear my head initially but it's also been a rabbit hole that turned into a warren lol that I've still got more to learn
Now this next pic is of a chamois that should've also been on video of the shot impact but yes this muppet bumped the tripod & slightly shifted the position of the video without me knowing until playback ( solo hunting)
But the sound was there & my words were priceless for my memory
It dropped him on the spot bangflop & on autopsy this pill was found
I've since lost the core of it & the jacket was basically useless in the killing aspect of it it was the core that got through to the spine
The chest cavity of this critter is about 8 inches wide & it made half of it .
but move that impact point to behind the shoulder ( you don't want runners in this terrain ) & I routinely got coke can exits if not bigger it was once again what it impacted that made this pill react the way it did that day & subsequent times & yet same critters nearly same placed shot I've dumped these & many other critters time after time ( different resistances mean a lot sometimes others not so much)
Here's another pic of a pill failure
Here's another
(Sorry I've reached the limit of the pictures that can be downloaded /attached
)
the list goes on & I've also moved on to other pills today that offer more consistency
& so far that has been a well balanced pill giving 2 holes rather than one
The gains are getting harder for tomorrow's pills to step ahead of what we have today but some gains still exsist & look forward to seeing what the various companies come up with
Cheers
First off the naming of target bullet or hunting bullet is irrelevant as it's the way the pill actually preforms on game terminally that is the key so I don't take any notice of these wording on the packaging these days yep terminal is what it's about & not just a dead critter well for me anyway
What I've witnessed over the numbers I've shot is the most consistent pill is a pill that gives 2 holes not one !!!!
REGARDLESS of pill brand or what it's called
You can also take that out of context so I'll add the caveat to the 2 holes
It's
The triangle that a few of us now talk about which needs to be followed ( also advisable to be followed with one hole ) or the 2 holes scenario can be a very poor performer & usually is
That is from recovery ( impact to tip ) to lost animals & I've had a few over my life
Now if we understand how a bullet works we are part of the way there but it's also understanding the pills limits ( velocity window also comes in here ) & this I read a couple of posts where a few people get this & give great advice on where & what to use/avoid so I won't parrot them
I use to use dual loads as a Band-Aid to give me more insurance but you needed to be careful on that as also had issues but bandaids once again gave us better overall results
I also see some who obviously are better shots than me & can place with accuracy ea & every time so the following dosent apply to those as is irrelevant to you lot so please move on to another post
For the guys like me who don't like Murphy or a bingo raffle while also can't guarantee the shot is on the money or angle will be like we believe or what we would like ea & every time
I'd suggest one looks @ the following of a pills traits that has shown to be lacking on the critter it impacted
Once again no need to worry if it's a target or hunting bullet as this is a design from the jacket thickness to the alloy or actual alloy , hp size , tip design & the list goes on
What I have found is by watching a pill's behaviour & more importantly failures you work out a pills limits pretty quickly but with the caveat you need critter numbers to work that out with any certainty
So yes a pill that is named a target bullet can pencil as per this pic
Note that was first shot being pointed out
Second shot same pill & roughly same impact velocity secured critter after blowing a coke can hole in the far side of this critter & sorry I don't have those pics as that was a longtime ago & was no where near thorough enough on pictures & had limited pictures that could be taken ( disposable cameras &35mm ) but on autopsy results it was cleanly observed & eventually worked out it was in the transition zone of the pill in question & by watching this pill over a high sample size of critters that was well in the 4 digits I worked out a little more on that pills weaknesses , tinkered with it got better results & eventually moved on to other pills yet it gave draw dropping preformance when all went well
The next one here's a pill that blew up on a shoulder , the following year deer was shot again recovered after it healed ( I got parts of the projectile out of that wound ) & I also put up on a different thread another recovered pill from a mate that did better on penetration but same thing , deer lived healed up & taken @ a later date .
totally agree that's a extremely small % but the non recovered ones are hard to work out lol on what actually happened & why I've tried to find out on on carcasses that smell a lot some , you do some you don't others but once again numbers help show pattern's
Now I can't guarantee what pill did this but I'm going to say I know with a fair amount of certainty I do as the group of hunters I shot with were the only ones who shot that particular property which had extremely low deer numbers & comprising of around 80,000 acres & the deer were contained from a vegetation/habitat /topography situation to part of the property which also was land locked on one side due the ocean & only 2 of us shot deer& used the same pill
The next series of pictures screenshot off my tv , off one of my old video's ( please excuse the quality ) are of 2 goats out of 41 total taken in 11 minutes &51 seconds from first shot to last ( well off the video counter & more to follow on why I put time up )
These 2 are where we start to learn more of a pill's limitations NOT the other 39 as they were dispatched well with approximately a 0-120 yard impact to tip , most were bangflop due too cns or close to it
So the white one first
He was apparently dead well so my mate & I thought & on the video on the shot @ the caramel one obscured by the tree
the white one got back up
& commenced to walk up hill ( which is never good) & was soon dispatched again with another shot as per picFirst shot failed to get enough penetration & gave spine shock which it staggered him for a bit but then fell where this pic is for which @ roughly 8min later the caramel goat was shot & the white one got back up & dispatched cleanly this time
This smaller caramel goat
was also pill failure for a different reason & that's snapping of the tip leaving a nosed over deflected tumbling pill & also required a second shot
Now 4 other goats also required a second shot & 1 a third but it was placement issues not a poor preforming pill
these bad ones & a few others were autopsied & the mate I was with ( rest his sole ) started to explain what when wrong , yes I was green way back then but my journey was really only just beginning into why these failures existed,
oh how I was schooled on what actually happened
Yep this muppet learnt a lot from that one trip but still very green
191 goats from around 20 to just over 600 yards for the day with 6 misses 11 goats got 2 shots 1 , 3shots &1 , 5 shots with 3 failures so yes on a failure base that's a very low % & no lost animals
Individually some will accept that as I did back then & thought I was better & I could just place my shots better for that outcome not to occur
Ha still I had more to learn
2 days later
After reluctantly agreeing to using a different pill ( dare I say with a low bc pill ) that my mate had a very good supply of we set out again
153 goats same ranges with 7 misses 7 required a 2nd shot 2 required 3 shots & 2,4 shots but not a failure oh & a red deer yearling for another weeks meals
No lost animals either
Impact to tip was around 10 yards less on average yet I still didn't see the wood in the trees & reverted back to my go to pill but the seed was set
I've lost animals to the first &3rd day pills just not on those days & had many days no lost critters either but it does happen but definitely can be lessoned imo & historically the 2nd pill proved over many critters it was the superior pill i just failed to clear my head initially but it's also been a rabbit hole that turned into a warren lol that I've still got more to learn
Now this next pic is of a chamois that should've also been on video of the shot impact but yes this muppet bumped the tripod & slightly shifted the position of the video without me knowing until playback ( solo hunting)
But the sound was there & my words were priceless for my memory
It dropped him on the spot bangflop & on autopsy this pill was found
I've since lost the core of it & the jacket was basically useless in the killing aspect of it it was the core that got through to the spine
The chest cavity of this critter is about 8 inches wide & it made half of it .
but move that impact point to behind the shoulder ( you don't want runners in this terrain ) & I routinely got coke can exits if not bigger it was once again what it impacted that made this pill react the way it did that day & subsequent times & yet same critters nearly same placed shot I've dumped these & many other critters time after time ( different resistances mean a lot sometimes others not so much)
Here's another pic of a pill failure
Here's another
(Sorry I've reached the limit of the pictures that can be downloaded /attached
) the list goes on & I've also moved on to other pills today that offer more consistency
& so far that has been a well balanced pill giving 2 holes rather than one
The gains are getting harder for tomorrow's pills to step ahead of what we have today but some gains still exsist & look forward to seeing what the various companies come up with
Cheers
It's sad you'd have to worry about getting into a "fight" over them.
Hunter bullets work as described if you do your part and then some even if you don't from what I've read. I have not tried them in my 308 but my two mag rifles 300 wsm and my 300 wm they work great and they should at the speeds I get out of them.
Too bad it's so far away to go shoot some of those critters as I'd like to try it, but dang it is a loooooog drive to find them.
KNOTFERSAIL
Well-Known Member
I haven't read through all the replies, but what I have I didn't see any mention about your target bullets used on bears. When you're 2nd or 3rd on the food chain, you can have your berger, smk, eldm or whatever target bullet you use. Ol yogi gets a bonded "hunting " through both front shoulders and broke down..period
Anyone hunt grizz or blackies with target or match bullets? What been your experience?
Anyone hunt grizz or blackies with target or match bullets? What been your experience?
CrickBottom
Well-Known Member
I suppose I can contribute to this thread lol. My daughter fired two shots this season. 140gr eld-m at a blistering 2700fps from her 6.5cm. 40yd frontal on the buck and 80yd broadside on the elk, which she shot through the onside shoulder and exited behind the offside shoulder. Buck was DRT and elk covered 40yds in a matter of a few seconds and crashed down the hill dead. Impressive performance.
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memtb
Well-Known Member
CrickBottom……a big congratulations to your daughter! memtb
Last edited:
That's how I roll! Finally, somebody on here gets it!
I cannot believe that I hunt with archery equipment after reading this thread. It's comical to me that some (if not many) believe that these animals are somehow bullet proof.
Oh, I shot the bull in my picture with a 225 ELDm from a suppressed 300 PRC. Even aimed point of shoulder. Never took a step.
Can't imagine how I killed all the whitetails, mule deer, elk and bear with a 1 1/16 to 1 1/4 cut broadhead. Oh my!
Happy New Year!
Steve
Oh, I shot the bull in my picture with a 225 ELDm from a suppressed 300 PRC. Even aimed point of shoulder. Never took a step.
Can't imagine how I killed all the whitetails, mule deer, elk and bear with a 1 1/16 to 1 1/4 cut broadhead. Oh my!
Happy New Year!
Steve
Playtimefun
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
- Messages
- 332
Ok... suppressed 300 PRC!!!!???? How much do you have to download it for a suppressor to work???
WeiserBucks
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2016
- Messages
- 2,834
No grizz, but I've taken a truck and trailer load of black bears with Bergers at close and long range, works just fine.
