TARGET BULLETS ARE NOT HUNTING BULLETS!

[Turpentine21]

I can "get lucky" with a 22 RF…..that doesn't make it a good big game cartridge/bullet!

Never said it couldn't be done……just that there are better and more responsible choices! But, that can be said of most any bullet, under certain circumstances! memtb

You can bet that if I had any reservations about the eldm doing the job, I dang sure wouldn't be using it. Elk I don't know nothing about. That is fact. But me and a couple buddies of mine shoot way more deer in a year (Legally I might add) than some folks will shoot in a lifetime and do most of it with what I would have considered a marginal caliber 10 years ago. Throw in quite a few hogs too. The Amax and eldm flat out work. If they didn't work, I'd be the first to say so. I owe Hornady nothing. I know some guys that wreaked havoc on African Plains game to include Zebra with 180 eldm's from a 7mag. Made the guide a believer. I have heard way more bad about the eldx than the eldm where game is concerned. I have no doubt that a 225 eldm would be some very stout elk medicine as well. So would an Accubond or Partition if you could find any. I've killed a right fair amount of deer with Sierras game king. It tends to be on the explosive side when you add some speed. But you don't here much about it because it says game king on the box

 

[memtb]

Some people can't see the trees through the forest. As my dad always says "nobody has one an argument on the internet and few have changed their minds." After 13 pages of impressive results if a person still says

then his mind is made up and nothing will change it…

An astute observation!

However a few numbers to validate a comment….would be handy! It's difficult to make a "head to head" comparison with only one set of values.

My favorite football team could score every time that they are on offense…..if the opponent stays in the locker room! Jus Say'n! memtb

 

[Turpentine21]

Here's an interesting experiment for you to try. Make ice in a zip lock bag, one with water and one filled with cotton and water. When frozen, do a test on which one lasts longer.

Will try that with some Rockfish (Stripers to some) here in the next month. It's getting close to my favorite time of year for those.

 

[340 in Va]

You should frame that photo, it is just amazing. Warmth, color, your daughter's smile, it brings a smile to my face. Congrats to her and you!!!

I agree, frame that photo. Make me think back almost 40 years when my kids got there first deer.

 

[Turpentine21]

I agree, frame that photo. Make me think back almost 40 years when my kids got there first deer.

Those are the times I live for. When you see a kid just beaming and glowing. I've helped many kids get their first animal. It never gets dull.

 

[Ucsdryder]

An astute observation!

However a few numbers to validate a comment….would be handy! It's difficult to make a "head to head" comparison with only one set of values.

My favorite football team could score every time that they are on offense…..if the opponent stays in the locker room! Jus Say'n! memtb

Here are the 143 hammers vs the 180s. Same elevation with 16mph cross wind. I don't see anything that's "similar". I chose the 143 because I tried them in my rifle along with the Cutting edge bullets so I still have the ballistics calculator.

 

[memtb]

Here are the 143 hammers vs the 180s. Same elevation with 16mph cross wind. I don't see anything that's "similar". I chose the 143 because I tried them in my rifle along with the Cutting edge bullets so I still have the ballistics calculator.

Hammer's are good bullets…..they also have some of the worst BC's.

I'll see if I can get a little closer to an "apples to apples" comparison for you! memtb

 

[Ucsdryder]

Hammer's are good bullets…..they also have some of the worst BC's.

I'll see if I can get a little closer "apples to apples" comparison! memtb you

Here is the 145 CEB lazers…almost 3 times the wind drift at 1000 yards. Take bullet construction out of it, Id rather hit them in the lungs with a FMJ than in the paunch with a perfect mushroom. Target bullets are more accurate. Nobody can argue that fact.

 

[memtb]

Here is the 145 CEB lazers…almost 3 times the wind drift at 1000 yards. Take bullet construction out of it, Id rather hit them in the lungs with a FMJ than in the paunch with a perfect mushroom. Target bullets are more accurate. Nobody can argue that fact.

At what elevation were your numbers based upon? memtb

 

[Ucsdryder]

At what elevation were your numbers based upon? memtb

10,000 (about my average hunting elevation, even though I shot my elk at almost 12k this year)

 

[memtb]

I'll concede that the higher BC bullets do indeed exhibit a great deal less drift at equal ranges. A lot greater than I thought! I guess that's the reason that I shoot game at closer ranges! I'll also concede that match bullets are a bit more accurate than hunting bullets!

However, in a hunting scenario…..where there are no benches, bags, ect., where the winds are variable, and the "hunting rifle" is a rifle that can be carried by the hunter afield……how many can actually accurately utilize that edge in wind drift.

In a hunting scenario who can accurately "guestimate", as they may vary considerably, the wind velocities from the muzzle to the target!

I could only get to 900 yards for my photo …..so those are the only values I can show! memtb

 

[Ucsdryder]

I'll concede that the higher BC bullets do indeed exhibit a great deal less drift at equal ranges. A lot greater than I thought! I guess that's the reason that I shoot game at closer ranges! I'll also concede that match bullets are a bit more accurate than hunting bullets!

However, in a hunting scenario…..where there are no benches, bags, ect., where the winds are variable, and the "hunting rifle" is a rifle that can be carried by the hunter afield……how many can actually accurately utilize that edge in wind drift.

In a hunting scenario who can accurately "guestimate", as they may vary considerably, the wind velocities from the muzzle to the target!

I could only get to 900 yards for my photo …..so those are the only values I can show! memtb


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You just made my point for me. You're absolutely right! When my daughter shot that elk at 300 yards I didn't know what the wind speed was or what the wind drift was. I just knew that if she aim for the shoulder, she had plenty of room for the bullet to drift. That is the exact reason that a target bullet is superior to something like an Accubond or partition or hammer. A target bullet has a lot less drift and maintains its velocity over distance, therefore having less drop as well. Your margin for error increases dramatically, 3x as much in one of the examples I sent you. When I say they are more accurate, I mean they are more accurate from a bench onto a target at 100 yards, but more importantly, they are more accurate in the field at 600 yards because their BCs equate to less drift and drop.

 

[Outdrmn]

At first, I was worried about the water. But I no longer pay any attention to it. The water doesn't seem to permeate into the meat like it would normally and turn it gray. I think it's because it still has all the outer silver skin and film on it. I leave the plug closed and then drain the water every day or other day. Never had an issue doing it that way. I think the water does a good job of leeching out the blood as well.

Thanks for this ^^^^!!!
Tried this with a bear, turned out great! This will be SOP from now on!

 

[memtb]

You just made my point for me. You're absolutely right! When my daughter shot that elk at 300 yards I didn't know what the wind speed was or what the wind drift was. I just knew that if she aim for the shoulder, she had plenty of room for the bullet to drift. That is the exact reason that a target bullet is superior to something like an Accubond or partition or hammer. A target bullet has a lot less drift and maintains its velocity over distance, therefore having less drop as well. Your margin for error increases dramatically, 3x as much in one of the examples I sent you. When I say they are more accurate, I mean they are more accurate from a bench onto a target at 100 yards, but more importantly, they are more accurate in the field at 600 yards because their BCs equate to less drift and drop.

Assuming a range finder is used, range is a mute point! Wind however, is very important ……and often a SWAG, except at the shooter's physical location.

As the wind velocities from shooter to target are often a SWAG…..I don't see my 10" difference (my bullet chart) as an earth stopping problem! And…..as my mono will not lose nearly as much weight as expected with the match bullet, at extreme distance penetration may be paramount!

Very few of us could hold within 10" of the intended impact point, with the numerous variables in a hunting scenario using "portable" hunting gear and rifle. By portable, I mean by the hunter ……not a 4x4, UTV, or horse/mule back! Using these methods introduces an entirely different scenario and this is an entirely different form of hunting…..as least in my opinion! memtb