Some thoughts on spine shots or DRT

[WildRose]

The brain works with chemicals and electricity, not an imagination of pain, no loss of signal just the electrical signal originates further up the nerve that's responsible for the extremity.

Pain and how we percieve it all occurs in the brain. Phantom limb pain is purely a creaton of the mind which is why it cannot be treated with traditional pain medications.

 

[WildRose]

Pain is pain is pain

When nerve endings get damaged pain happens. If you don't agree that nerves can be damaged at and upstream of bullet impact or any significant trauma, then we severely disagree. If you dont agree that phantom pain is real pain, then we again disagree.

Either way this is useless

"Nerve endings" would be the key phrase here.

The nerve endings are far away from the spine and are not damaged with a shot to the spine and more importantly there is no way for signals from those nerve endings to get to the brain once the spine is severed.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

That was an error on my part as pain does not only originate from nerve endings. Any damage to a nerve fiber can and will result in pain. Whether that is a peripheral nerve or spinal cord. If someone takes a knife and slips it just under your spinal cord you will feel pain.

 

[Vortex!]

The only way such an empty space in can exist in the pleural cavity is if the lungs collapse which only happens when they are punctured allowing air to escape into the cavity.

I disagree with you because I know for a fact there is a dead spot where there is nothing! How do I know because I shot a deer there and it fell down like a spine shot and then got up and ran off. We trailed until the blood trail petered out. Never found that deer because it recovered and lived until the next season. One of many deer i've shot was obviously shot in the dead spot at one time because there was a pocket of skin grown into the hole. Somebody had shot it the season before but it had recovered and was in excellent shape. It happens whether you believe it or not even if you don't agree.

 

[yorke-1]

I"m saying when you sever the connection to the brain from the sensory nerves there can be no pain. The spinal cord itself cannot sense pain, only the sensory nerves that feed into it do, the rest just transmit the signals. It's like a phone, your phone may still have power but if it's disconnected at the box on your block you'll never be able to get a call out.

That's simply not accurate. Having a family member who's been a C-5 quadriplegic for 12 years, I can assure you that having spinal cord damage does not mean that there's no sensation of pain.

I'm not familiar enough with the nervous system of an elk to know exactly how far up the spinal cord it would need to be severed to cause loss of function to the diaphragm, but I imagine it's a little farther up the neck than most people would think.

 

[Vortex!]

They will feel pain if they aren't dead by the time the shock from the bullet impact subsides!

 

[WildRose]

I disagree with you because I know for a fact there is a dead spot where there is nothing! How do I know because I shot a deer there and it fell down like a spine shot and then got up and ran off. We trailed until the blood trail petered out. Never found that deer because it recovered and lived until the next season. One of many deer i've shot was obviously shot in the dead spot at one time because there was a pocket of skin grown into the hole. Somebody had shot it the season before but it had recovered and was in excellent shape. It happens whether you believe it or not even if you don't agree.

Then you never had a chance to examine the wound.

The lungs fill the pleural cavity, it is the action of the diaphram that allows fot the increased volume allowing them to exhale. Had you penetrated the cavity there would have been damage to the lungs or at least to one of them.

 

[Pdvdh]

NOW we're on a roll!

 

[WildRose]

That's simply not accurate. Having a family member who's been a C-5 quadriplegic for 12 years, I can assure you that having spinal cord damage does not mean that there's no sensation of pain.

I'm not familiar enough with the nervous system of an elk to know exactly how far up the spinal cord it would need to be severed to cause loss of function to the diaphragm, but I imagine it's a little farther up the neck than most people would think.

If the spinal cord is severed there is no connection to anything below it.

You can be a a quad or parapalegic though without a complete transection of the spinal cord, all that is necessary is for significant enough damage to be done to the motor nerves to lose all or most movement beyond the point of damage. That doesn't necessarily mean there is an associated similar level of damage to all of the sensory nerves.

 

[Vortex!]

Then you never had a chance to examine the wound.

The lungs fill the pleural cavity, it is the action of the diaphram that allows fot the increased volume allowing them to exhale. Had you penetrated the cavity there would have been damage to the lungs or at least to one of them.

The lungs aren't full of air all the time they gotta breathe out at some point! If it had hit lungs we would've recovered the deer. It wasn't the first time we tracked a deer. I know it penetrated the cavity there was a fist sized hole in him. It was a ten yard shot and I walked up to it and it jumped up and ran off. I did see the wound I was right there!

 

[WildRose]

The lungs aren't full of air all the time they gotta breathe out at some point! If it had hit lungs we would've recovered the deer. It wasn't the first time we tracked a deer. I know it penetrated the cavity there was a fist sized hole in him. It was a ten yard shot and I walked up to it and it jumped up and ran off. I did see the wound I was right there!

They don't have to be full of air, They are not loose bags flopping around in an empty space.

Volume is increased in the cavity and lungs simply by drawing air in and it is then pushed out when the diaphram contracts. The rib cage muscles act opposite of the diaphram. In inhalation they relax, on exhalation they contract.

If there were empty space surrounding them it would be filled with air and have no place to escape on inhalation.

 

[Hatrick]

That's simply not accurate. Having a family member who's been a C-5 quadriplegic for 12 years, I can assure you that having spinal cord damage does not mean that there's no sensation of pain.

I'm not familiar enough with the nervous system of an elk to know exactly how far up the spinal cord it would need to be severed to cause loss of function to the diaphragm, but I imagine it's a little farther up the neck than most people would think.

I can tell you first hand that in a human the phrenic nerve is at yourshoulder blade.

 

[WildRose]

I can tell you first hand that in a human the phrenic nerve is at yourshoulder blade.

? It enters the pleural cavity following the same path as the carotid artery and jugular.

 

[yorke-1]

If the spinal cord is severed there is no connection to anything below it.

You can be a a quad or parapalegic though without a complete transection of the spinal cord, all that is necessary is for significant enough damage to be done to the motor nerves to lose all or most movement beyond the point of damage. That doesn't necessarily mean there is an associated similar level of damage to all of the sensory nerves.

Yes, if the cord is severed. But how often is the animal hit and the cord is damaged, not severed? And which specific vertebrae needs to be severed (not damaged) on a deer or elk to cause death?

I can tell you first hand that in a human the phrenic nerve is at yourshoulder blade.

But is it in the same place on an elk? I'm not arguing with you, I really don't know.