Some thoughts on spine shots or DRT

[Pdvdh]

Well, I skipped the last few pages but this is obviously a hot topic! In my world spine shots are mistakes that wound. Obviously there is disagreement with that! I dont care, I just wanted to make the point to double check before the high fives and group hugs.

Which is a worthy point to be made!

 

[stx]

good points STX, that last picture shows why the dogs were needed. unless i saw it wrong, looks like that guy ran it right through the guts. From a guides perspective, I can absolutely see why you'd want to dump the animal right there, no matter what. How many of those clients even leave with all the meat from the animal? or do they just donate so they can get the trophy?

Yes, he made a bad shot and hit the buck way too far back and luckily our guy was close and the dogs had him within a couple hours and we finished him off with a rifle. Most clients take their meat but we always have some that don't want it and we have several friends that will come and take it to their church or a needy family.....it all goes to good use!

 

[yorke-1]

Well, I skipped the last few pages but this is obviously a hot topic! In my world spine shots are mistakes that wound. Obviously there is disagreement with that! I dont care, I just wanted to make the point to double check before the high fives and group hugs.

Now I feel like I'm missing part of the hunting experience since I always hunt alone. I have the loneliest high fives and saddest group hugs ever..... LOL

 

[gjk5]

Well, I skipped the last few pages but this is obviously a hot topic! In my world spine shots are mistakes that wound. Obviously there is disagreement with that! I dont care, I just wanted to make the point to double check before the high fives and group hugs.

Point taken from the jump, and a good point at that.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Now I feel like I'm missing part of the hunting experience since I always hunt alone. I have the loneliest high fives and saddest group hugs ever..... LOL

Just get on youtube and watch a few long range hunting vids, you'll get enough high fives and group hugs for a life time, might even hear some fist pumping if your lucky!

 

[1Moose]

I clearly haven't shot nearly as many animals as the majority of people on this thread and site. My experience with elk is the seven I've shot these past several years. I've marveled at how they have died stoically, almost soundlessly, except for one that was gurgling in its own blood while I stupidly debated approaching it to finish it. I regret that decision which was rooted in a desire to not have the animal have to see me approaching him and thinking he'd die quicker. I did eventually shoot him again—but should have sooner. He died over several mins.

Because I hunt mostly close range (muzzleloader primarily for elk) I almost always see them die up close. It can't help but feel personal up close seeing something so beautiful die. While it'd be nice to think that animals don't feel pain, the piercing screams of this year's bull entirely convinces me otherwise. I couldn't see him after he dropped off the embankment he was climbing following a cow (fell immediately). I hit him with a 50 caliber muzzleloader at ~100 yds. Did I hit a nerve bundle? I'll never know but I remember the screams longer than I'd like. I don't buy that they don't feel pain one bit.

Maybe some of you have experienced that? Never heard it before and hope I don't again. I would have shot him again but by the time I reloaded and worked my way across the thicket to where he fell he had died. Cleaned him gutless so not sure what I hit internally but seemed like a decent shot placement, though a bit lower than I intended.

Even though I was pretty close, I wish I could have seen him / get to him in time to shoot him again. Do the animal a favor by honoring it with as clean and quick a death as your skills and circumstance will allow.

 

[6MM06AI]

Never claimeds to know everything about everything but shooting thousands of animals over a forty year period and 4 years of pre med/vet along with 13 years Qualified as a Special Forces Medic gave me a pretty good education and a whole lot of experience on this subject.

I'm very impressed with your knowledge and extremely thankful for your service and appreciate reading your posts on this web sight

 

[WildRose]

Which would point to fact that it's a relatively small target to properly hit and sever at even moderate range under field conditions. A 2-3" spinal column which is concealed under hair, hide and muscle is a pretty small target for the average shooter to hit under field conditions.

That doesn't make it a bad shot, it just means that it's important for the hunter to ensure a quick follow up with a killing shot once the animal has been immobilized with the a spine shot. I think that was all Alex was really saying.

This isn't the site for "average shooters".

I don't suggest every one needs to be taking spine shots, not here, nor in any other thread. It takes a precision shot to bisect the spine, that's a given.

What I do suggest for LR shooting is the midpoint between the elbow and poin tof the shoulder or slightly forward of that line as it gives you the most room for error.

In the kind of brush we normally hunt or in tall/thick CRP if an animal runs at all they can be quickly lost which is why under those circumstances I want them to instead drop in their tracks.

You'e all welcome to pick your own POA based on the condititons, bullet, range, critter being hunted etc.

 

[Doug Herold]

This may be common knowledge but I read it and see it in the LR hunting videos enough that I just want to make this post. Spine shots usually do not kill, they paralyze and leave the animal laying on the ground in extreme pain. If you take a shot and the game drops in their tracks like a CNS shot does, get back on the scope and just double check that you did not spine them. If you did, just put one in the vitals to finish them off. I just see too many videos that are obvious spine shots, the animal drops, and the guys start to jump around high fiving while the game is not dead or even close to dead. Just an observation. I think its time we start recognizing CNS shots for what they are most of the time, wounding shots. As LR hunters I think we need to hold our selves to a higher standard.

Thank you for this post, Alex. The high fiving and jumping around like a bunch of school girls at a ball game drives me nuts— especially when it's obvious that a poor shot was made.

 

[KyCarl]

I often wonder what really happens on those shows? Versus what we see.
Editing can make it seem just how they want it, not as it really was!

 

[yorke-1]

This isn't the site for "average shooters".

I don't suggest every one needs to be taking spine shots, not here, nor in any other thread. It takes a precision shot to bisect the spine, that's a given.

What I do suggest for LR shooting is the midpoint between the elbow and poin tof the shoulder or slightly forward of that line as it gives you the most room for error.

In the kind of brush we normally hunt or in tall/thick CRP if an animal runs at all they can be quickly lost which is why under those circumstances I want them to instead drop in their tracks.

You'e all welcome to pick your own POA based on the condititons, bullet, range, critter being hunted etc.

Take a close look at the posts, questions and comments on this site and I think you'll see that this site is predominantly visited by "average" shooters. They just might not realize that they're much closer to average than expert.

Of course the internet is like an open book test. You're given the opportunity to find the answer before writing it down, which makes everyone look above average. The problem comes when something goes wrong and you don't get to ask google how to fix it. That's what separates the average guy from an expert.

 

[Pdvdh]

It's eerily calm this morning. So...

Unless the liver isn't considered a vital organ, the center of the vital zone on a broadside large game animal will be located behind its front leg bone.

If you hit forward of the front leg bone on a broadside animal at long range, after bullet velocity has slowed, good luck. Because that's what you'll need to recover that animal.

On the original subject which started this Thread... Targeting the spine at long range never enters my mind. At closer ranges, more options become possible due to the improved ability to actually hit the aim point. At long range, my aim point builds in the most forgiveness for bullet drift in any and every direction. Which necessitates a crosshair hold behind the front leg bone, mid-height in body.

I aim just clear of the shoulder meat. No problems.

For those that believe this hit location lacks lethality, you'd have to also conclude that archers never target a lethal/vital organ aim point on the animals they kill.

 

[WildRose]

Take a close look at the posts, questions and comments on this site and I think you'll see that this site is predominantly visited by "average" shooters. They just might not realize that they're much closer to average than expert.

Of course the internet is like an open book test. You're given the opportunity to find the answer before writing it down, which makes everyone look above average. The problem comes when something goes wrong and you don't get to ask google how to fix it. That's what separates the average guy from an expert.

The whole purpose of this form is "Long Range Hunting". The average hunter will never take a shot beyond 200 yards.

 

[WildRose]

It's eerily calm this morning. So...

Unless the liver isn't considered a vital organ, the center of the vital zone on a broadside large game animal will be located behind its front leg bone.

If you hit forward of the front leg bone on a broadside animal at long range, after bullet velocity has slowed, good luck. Because that's what you'll need to recover that animal.

On the original subject which started this Thread... Targeting the spine at long range never enters my mind. At closer ranges, more options become possible due to the improved ability to actually hit the aim point. At long range, my aim point builds in the most forgiveness for bullet drift in any and every direction. Which necessitates a crosshair hold behind the front leg bone, mid-height in body.

I aim just clear of the shoulder meat. No problems.

For those that believe this hit location lacks lethality, you'd have to also conclude that archers never target a lethal/vital organ aim point on the animals they kill.

The kill zone also includes the full length of the spine from the shoulders forward. The loop or hook in the spine is slightly forward of the shoulders.

We all have our preferences and as I said, I'm not encouraging everyone to take spine shots particularly not under all circumstances.