So.... 6.5 PRC fliers.....NOT ANYMORE!!!!!

[bluedog69]

I'm shooting right at the max listed in the Nosler manual of H-1000, ADG Brass, Fed 210M Primers, 140 Grain Accubonds. I do not know the COAL but can get it for you but it would probably be different for your rifle anyway. I do get slight ejector marks but no heavy bolt lift. Nosler lists 58 grains of H-1000 as max so work up to that load if you try it, please. Just because that load is usable in my rifle does not mean it will work in yours.

I have some 140 accubonds on the way.

 

[bluedog69]

Tell that to alot of good BR and F- Class shooters. Did you watch the Video with Eric Cortina with he the Horny guy.
I'm sure Hornys testing was done at 100 yards there a big difference between 100 and 500 and beyond. I know for a shadow of a doudt seating depth makes a difference past 100 yards so I know that claim is pure 100% B.S

We watched a "Winning in the Wind" video on Youtube by Keith Glasscock. This video he did many 100 yard groups. If two shots had any paper left between them he didn't shoot again... that group can't get any smaller.
Interesting video.

 

[L.Sherm]

Theres a big difference here, between listen to a podcast about some 100 yard testing that says seating depth doesnt matter and you need 35, 50 100 shots or your group- data is junk.
Problem is this forum is LR hunting which my main objective is #1 shot is exactly were I want it possibly #2 after that its highly unlikely it was a good shot or the animal is running so in some cases # 3 isn't even in the pic.
So what does 35,50 or 100 rounds tell you.
Some hunting rifles are out of tune at 50 or 100 rounds.
If you have a 3 shot group that will repeat theres no need for more.
Now when we talk different disciplines thats different story

 

[bluedog69]

I learned a long time ago that it is cost-effective to bed the rifle before you ever pull the trigger.

Seating de;pth is a very important issue, I will run a single shot if I have to, but a Wyatt's mag box in my Rem 700's solves all issues where I get .125 more COAL, and they do make a 4.000" length for 28 Nosler and STW's, etc.

Attempting to work up a super accurate load without flyers in an unbeded rifle is lunacy at it's best, depending on the stock.

Bench techniques to eliminate flyers are another subject.

Trying to get it done in a hurry is problematic. You might find a factory load that works for now.

I'd bed it even with a block for sure. After that, if it still wanders, I'd try different primers and seating depth. On a hunting rifle needing fed from a magazine, coal may not be optimized but rather a compromise.
My choice primers have been Federal, but availability has lead me to try whatever I could find.

So the barrel has plenty of free float to it. I have bedded a few "old school" or cheap rifles.
I have never bedded a Savage like this. Somewhere a few years ago I read that the tang needs to be free floated on a Savage. Any knowledge on this?
So will I end up with it fully bedded and little to no contact with the aluminum bedding block?

 

[Allen Kitts]

Theres a big difference here, between listen to a podcast about some 100 yard testing that says seating depth doesnt matter and you need 35, 50 100 shots or your group- data is junk.
Problem is this forum is LR hunting which my main objective is #1 shot is exactly were I want it possibly #2 after that its highly unlikely it was a good shot or the animal is running so in some cases # 3 isn't even in the pic.
So what does 35,50 or 100 rounds tell you.
Some hunting rifles are out of tune at 50 or 100 rounds.
If you have a 3 shot group that will repeat theres no need for more.
Now when we talk different disciplines thats different story

I couldn't agree more. Ive been telling guys for years you don't get to shoot groups at animals. I validate my gun every year before hunting season at 100 yard intervals from 200 to 700 with cold barrel shots to make sure it is on when I pull the trigger the first time because that is probably the only shot I am going to get at an animal. I strive for 1/2MOA three shot groups at those distances earlier in the year but when hunting season comes around it's one cold bore shot, then pack it up and shoot something else until it completely cools down cold to the touch then another one and so forth until I know I am ready for the season. JMO and I agree with yours.

 

[bluedog69]

Theres a big difference here, between listen to a podcast about some 100 yard testing that says seating depth doesnt matter and you need 35, 50 100 shots or your group- data is junk.
Problem is this forum is LR hunting which my main objective is #1 shot is exactly were I want it possibly #2 after that its highly unlikely it was a good shot or the animal is running so in some cases # 3 isn't even in the pic.
So what does 35,50 or 100 rounds tell you.
Some hunting rifles are out of tune at 50 or 100 rounds.
If you have a 3 shot group that will repeat theres no need for more.
Now when we talk different disciplines thats different story

Yes, the 3"- 3.5" flyer wasn't a fluke. About 7 seperate 3 shot groups confirmed this.
Two shots in tight with one a long ways off. Saturday and Sunday is youth season so hopefully
we will come up with at least a 1.5" or maybe a 2" group of consistent all day long groups before this weekend.
After that the boys can spend months tweaking loads. They really want to get into the long range end of things.(Kestrels etc etc etc) They do quite well with a both bow and gun. I am being 100% honest when I say I wish I could shoot like they do....oh to be young again!

This is who you guys are helping out with your responses.
Thanks!!!!

 

[bluedog69]

I couldn't agree more. Ive been telling guys for years you don't get to shoot groups at animals. I validate my gun every year before hunting season at 100 yard intervals from 200 to 700 with cold barrel shots to make sure it is on when I pull the trigger the first time because that is probably the only shot I am going to get at an animal. I strive for 1/2MOA three shot groups at those distances earlier in the year but when hunting season comes around it's one cold bore shot, then pack it up and shoot something else until it completely cools down cold to the touch then another one and so forth until I know I am ready for the season. JMO and I agree with yours.

I agree with that also. I have 4 daughters 2 sons and wife that hunt.
Take 8 guns to the range to get ready for deer season. They each get shot, one shot at a time. By the time you shoot each gun one shot they are cold bore again. Time to start at the next distance
each rifle gets shot once.

 

[L.Sherm]

I dont watch hardly any YouTube stuff except some of Eric Cortina especially when he had Alex Wheeler and Tom Mouser on his podcast.
I just watched a couple of Keith Glascocks ones people would be WAY better off watching some peoples like this than the Horny podcast there stuff to learn listening to these types of people they have some real good basic stuff that people should listen to.
There disciplines are different than us LR hunters but the concept of very accurate loads can be used in both disciplines.

 

[Darryle]

See post #27 above.
I did check the rail and the stock screws on Wyatt's 6.5 PRC. I went 20 in lbs on the rail and it clicked. I went 45 in lbs on the stock screws and it clicked. So all seems tight.

Did you loosen and then torque or did you simply check it at those two numbers?

Excessive torque is as bad if not worse on certain types of stocks.

 

[L.Sherm]

If torqueing action screws makes a difference in how it shoots then there's 2 reasons why, one its not bedded, second if it is its not stress free.

 

[BigNate]

So the barrel has plenty of free float to it.

So will I end up with it fully bedded and little to no contact with the aluminum bedding block?

First I've not bedded a Savage. I have done Rems, Ruger 77s, and Winchester 70s. I don't let the tang hit against the stock. I've had good results bedding the recoil lug area, and sometimes adding a light skim further back if it's a sloppy fit. I always try to get the action to be seated with even pressure, then remove any excess that could cause binding.
Speaking of binding, I've had better results with the front action screw tight, and the rear just snug. If it has a middle screw it just gets enough to keep it in place.
With my sons Bergara, he had some actual work done before he even shot it, so had the gunsmith bed it to the block. The block is visible in some places, and disappears under bedding in others. It shoots very well.

 

[bluedog69]

Did you loosen and then torque or did you simply check it at those two numbers?

Excessive torque is as bad if not worse on certain types of stocks.

I didn't loosen them. Just started low and worked my way up. EGW states 20 in lbs on most of their rails. So the rail screws didn't move at 20.
As far as the stock/ action screws go, I have never had any luck finding any info for numbers on tightness. I have seen guys say 35 all the way to 65. I started at 20 and worked up to 45 to see if and when they might move.
Problem is I have put in 28 hours at school the last two days. So hopefully Wed - Fri will let me work on this thing some.

 

[bluedog69]

Savage ultra light 124 hammers RL26 fed 210 stupid accurate .

Have thought about trying to Hammer something with this gun.

 

[Joe-boy]

I hear people saying over and over again that an accurate hunting rifle does not have to group nicely, the first shot is what counts. While that's technically true, the fact is that if you cannot repeatedly place a bullet where you want, you cannot put a bullet where you want.

There is no such a rifle that always puts the first bullet of the day in the correct place and then needs a night's sleep. Some barrels dislike heat, but then just let them cool down between the shots and still fire a larger amount of shots, maybe over several range visits. Larger amount of shots is the only way to know.

A small number of shots can tell you something does not work; a group does not get any smaller when you put more holes on the target. If you're looking for .5 MOA and the first three shots are 1.5 MOA there is no need to shoot more. However, a small group always gets larger when we put more holes on it. I think this is the real reason why many of us dislike shooting more than 3-5 shot groups...

A simple test that can be done with any gun anywhere: shoot 10 groups of 3 shots each. Some are always significantly larger/smaller than the others, even if you change absolutely nothing. Thus changing something and then shooting a 3 shot group cannot tell whether that change actually had any impact on anything because the group size varies back and forth even if you change nothing.

I've been there myself. I've shot nice 3 shot groups and congratulated myself for owning a good gun and being able to reload and shoot very well. That's a warm and fuzzy feeling and I hate the statistics for taking that from me...