Smallest caliber for Montana Mule Deer Rifle

[6.5x300 WBY]

So now a 6mm is questionable for mule deer? Piles of deer have been killed with the lowly 243 Win, 6 Creed, 6 XC, 6mm Rem, etc. I shot a buck a couple of years back with my 1:8 twist 22-250 AI with an 88 gr ELDM going 3150. Distance was 315 yards. He was down in seconds.

I shot a doe antelope last fall with my 22 Creed (again 88 gr ELDM) at 430 yards last year. She didn't care for the combo either and expired quickly.

Shoot was you feel is necessary, but don't knock others if they don't share the same view point.

Exactly. It's a deer and it's not hard to penetrate. Bones aren't big or hard to go through. 6mm is more than up for that task.

 

[300sendero]

So now a 6mm is questionable for mule deer? Piles of deer have been killed with the lowly 243 Win, 6 Creed, 6 XC, 6mm Rem, etc. I shot a buck a couple of years back with my 1:8 twist 22-250 AI with an 88 gr ELDM going 3150. Distance was 315 yards. He was down in seconds.

I shot a doe antelope last fall with my 22 Creed (again 88 gr ELDM) at 430 yards last year. She didn't care for the combo either and expired quickly.

Shoot was you feel is necessary, but don't knock others if they don't share the same view point.

I see nothing wrong with what you used for those kills fyi. Suggestions for a caliber to get to 600 yards for a Montana mule deer hunt is what's being debated.

 

[HandgunHTR]

That is exactly what I meant by my post. Use a bigger gun to shoot a mule deer in Montana. Leave your 22 creemdmore Sherman improved with hammer bullets on the east coast if you want to be up with the times. You are shooting a bigger animal with a big desire to live. The margin of error for an ethical kill and ethical retrieval of the animal is way to small with that small of diameter bullet and with little mass to carry energy. He said to 600 yards. Not out of a tree stand watching a food plot that you drive your side by side to after you shoot it. A deer running a couple hundred yards means the difference of a few minutes to pack it out or taking days. Spend 5 minutes reading this forum and the take home message will be the larger diameter the bullet the better it makes ethical kills. Common sense is the only credentials anyone needs to not recommend a 22 caliber ANYTHING for 600 yards shots on mule deer. There are better tools than there were in the 1900s but a 22 caliber is still a 22 caliber and an 80 grain bullet is still an 80 grain bullet. Higher bc and better construction still doesn't change that it's not enough to make ethical shots at distance.

You automatically assume that because I live in SC, I hunt small deer over a food plot/feeder.

I don't hunt anything but black bears here in the state I currently live in. I have, and will continue to hunt mule deer out west every year. I started killing them with a 7mm Remington Magnum because that is what the people I grew up around told me I needed to "get out there and knock them down.". As I got older and smarter, actually learned about physics and animal anatomy, learned proper shooting techniques and how to actually dial my scopes, rather than set and forget, I made some pretty big discoveries. First one being that deer, whether they be whitetails, blacktails, Coues, mule, or Axis, are not armor-plated. Second, when you hit something vital, they die. Third, it is much easier to hit something vital when using a good shooting platform in a rifle that is easy to shoot. That means limited muzzle blast (suppressor) and low recoil. Yes, you can get low recoil with a larger chambering with a brake, but I already have over 50% hearing loss in my left ear. I don't need more. And, no, your ear plugs are not sufficient.

My final point is that mule deer are not that hard to kill. Certainly not harder than black bears, Axis, or Midwest whitetails, and I have killed a pile of those with .22 and 6mm caliber chamberings. Even out to 600 yards.

So, you keep hammering away with your 300 Wizzbang Supermag. I honestly don't care. I do care when people come into discussions with their hackles up, making patently false statements and horribly wrong assumptions. Take the time to actually educate yourself. You might be surprised what you learn.

 

[HandgunHTR]

It's still an 80 grain'ish bullet with a small nose profile. I'm done talking with you about this nonsense. I feel like I'm talking to the old drunk at the gun shop claiming to have brought down a plane with a 22 rimfire.

Nose profile has nothing to do with anything. We are not shooting FMJs.

As far as the drunk comment, classy. Also, please point out where anything that I have posted was factually incorrect. I will wait.

 

[waspocrew]

I see nothing wrong with what you used for those kills fyi. Suggestions for a caliber to get to 600 yards for a Montana mule deer hunt is what's being debated.

I understand that - I'm pointing out that in my opinion, I feel a heavy 22 cal projectile can effectively be used to harvest mule deer (even a Montana mule deer) out to distance. You definitely feel otherwise and that's totally fine.

 

[bigngreen]

You sure as hell shouldn't be taking 600 yard shots at a MULE deer with 22 anything. Even suggesting that for mule deer hunting is crazy. Admitting you've killed deer with one is one thing but actually suggesting it to someone is foolish. Don't encourage most wounded deer. 6mm is a stretch and a right 25 cal set up I will give you that one. But for hells sake leave your 22-250 at home when it comes to our mule deer.

Probably shouldn't talk about the elk I've killed with a 223 or 22-250. They seemed to die rather quick with their lungs popped just like the deer!

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

I understand that - I'm pointing out that in my opinion, I feel a heavy 22 cal projectile can effectively be used to harvest mule deer (even a Montana mule deer) out to distance. You definitely feel otherwise and that's totally fine.

Bravo. Nice mature statement. Well done Sir, well done

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Virtually everything can be killed with a .223, providing of course, that you use a Sierra 77TMK bullet.

 

[buzby]

I always knew elk were armor plated, but now mule deer are too? Soooo much harder to kill than a lowly whitetailed deer

Put a decent bullet in the vitals, in the correct velocity window for expansion, and you will have a dead deer.

There are several 224 bullets (above the right velocity) that will put a fist sized hole in an ungulate. Yes, even a western mule deer.

 

[Hondo64d]

That is exactly what I meant by my post. Use a bigger gun to shoot a mule deer in Montana. Leave your 22 creemdmore Sherman improved with hammer bullets on the east coast if you want to be up with the times. You are shooting a bigger animal with a big desire to live. The margin of error for an ethical kill and ethical retrieval of the animal is way to small with that small of diameter bullet and with little mass to carry energy. He said to 600 yards. Not out of a tree stand watching a food plot that you drive your side by side to after you shoot it. A deer running a couple hundred yards means the difference of a few minutes to pack it out or taking days. Spend 5 minutes reading this forum and the take home message will be the larger diameter the bullet the better it makes ethical kills. Common sense is the only credentials anyone needs to not recommend a 22 caliber ANYTHING for 600 yards shots on mule deer. There are better tools than there were in the 1900s but a 22 caliber is still a 22 caliber and an 80 grain bullet is still an 80 grain bullet. Higher bc and better construction still doesn't change that it's not enough to make ethical shots at distance.

How many animals, deer sized and up, have you killed with a .22 center fire pushing 88gr ELD-Ms or similar bullets? How many of those animals that you shot with said combination did you lose? What was the shot placement? How far did they run? I'm very interested in your experience with high velocity, high BC .224 bullets in medium sized game.

John

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

7-08

Yup, 7-08 punches above its weight class for sure, especially if you are using a 150gr.+ bullet in it. Personally for me I'm not interested in anyone hunting mule deer with me with something much smaller than that. I might make exception to a 243win/6rem or 25-06 if you reign in the distance a bit but when distance is involved you need a decent pill and diameter to start with. As I said previously, I've seen 22cal rifles in the field; I'd be hard pressed to field 1 for anything bigger than varmints.

 

[Txcowboy50]

In rethinking my MT mule deer rifle. No elk, just deer. Out to 600ish.

What is the smallest caliber you would build for this pu6

Why small? I would go with a 6.5 PRC. Good to beyond 600yds and mild recoil.

 

[PorterSGuns23]

One must consider MT hunting and where Mule deer live. They will range from the open prairies up to the highest sheep elevation at times. One can not only consider the actual ability to Kill a mature mule deer, most modern rifle chamberings will have the ABILITY to do that at 600 yards. He main issue is generally having a rifle with the ability to hit the target consistently in the vitals at this range. As such, WIND is often the main consideration. Being a native MT boy and lived and hunted here my entire, wind is the killer. On the prairies you can have clean wind but often times not, a 20 mph wind is just another day on the east side of the rockies.

Wind is the reason i started designed my APS wildcats 20 years ago. Wind is the reason why my Raptor and Stalker rifles are here today.

Many looked at my wildcats and thought, those are massively overpowered for simply hunting deer……. Here in Montana and many western states, killing the game is not the challange, hitting the game in the vitals on the first shot is the challenge because of the wind. That is why my idea of the perfect deer rifle is a 7mm with the ability to drive a 180 gr bullet to +3400 fps or a 195 gr bullet to +3300 fps. Yep, thats my 7mm Allen Magnum and thats out of a conventional weight sporter style hunting rifle.

Now i said thats MY idea of the perfect deer rifle for Montana but that one has the ability to add 1000 yards to your 600 yard range goals. Still, if i am hunting mule deer in Montana, there will very likely be a 7mm AM on my shoulder.

The question however was what is the smallest chambering recommended for mule deer in MT out to 600 yards. The question alone worries me a bit, SMALLEST….. why in the world would we want the absolute minimum? With the smallest, the margins for error are the smallest as well…. If recoil is an issue, there are many fine ways to eliminate that issue…….

But if a customer came to me asking me my recommendation to this exact question. I would likely say at least a 6.5mm round with the ability to drive a minimum of 140 gr bullet weight to at least 3000 fps. That would be my absolute minimum. So something such as the 6.5-06 AI, 6.5 wsm class and up.

Ideal minimum would be a 270 or 7mm with at least 150-160 gr bullet weight and ability to drive those to around 3000 fps or more. 270 wsm, 7mm wsm, 7mm rem mag

Are these required for mule deer, nope, but hitting the target precisely at 600 yards greatly complicates this project.

I can hear it already, all the anti-magnum crowd typing away to argue the need for this class of rifle. Anyone that says its just as easy to hit a one moa sized target at 600 yards with their 6mm creed compared to doing the same with a 7mm wsm in a 10-15 mph variable wind is either not overly experienced or flat out being dishonest. They can talk all they want about numbers on paper, when the bullets actually get in the air, its obvious, the larger rounds make hitting small targets at longer ranges easier.

Then we get into the margin of error issues which unfortunately in the real world are legit concerns. Hit s mule deer on the fringes of the vitals at 600 yards with a 243 or 6mm creed an likely you will have a rather challenging recovery project ahead of you at best or loose a mortally wounded animal at worse.

Same hit with a 7mm wsm or better yet 7mm AM , will increase the odds of recovering that game animal DRAMATICALLY. yes there will still be thr possibility of poor results, hitting the vitals dead center is always the goal, but in the real world, not always reality….

In my opinion, looking for the SMALLEST possible option that could work is not the best choice. And often times will result in a less then ideal outcome which can cause much headaches and frustrations…

I just want to throw out there that this is is the best laid statement in this entire thread. I still love my 270 and 243 and am willing to take a deer with my 223 if opportunity and need arises. Granted I hunt west of Missoula so shots are scarcely past 300 yards unless you want to shoot across canyons. Which I don't love doing. But for the OP this guy knows his stuff. You sir have the most knowledge here. Cheers

 

[dogz]

Probably shouldn't talk about the elk I've killed with a 223 or 22-250. They seemed to die rather quick with their lungs popped just like the deer!

Nor should anyone mention the 3 big black bears taken spot n stalk with a 223 and 40 NBT's...snork