Single digit E.S. dont mean squat.

[Culpeper]

 

[SSG Graybush]

Anyone promoting ES doesn't matter doesn't shoot long range enough.Vertical dispersion is real and pic's of game don't change that.
And you can get a good group at 100 y/m with a terrible ES/SD, but take it out to 1000 and see.
The fact that guys on here are defending this is proof positive that you can't fix stupid.

 

[Dirtrax]

Anyone promoting ES doesn't matter doesn't shoot long range enough.Vertical dispersion is real and pic's of game don't change that.
And you can get a good group at 100 y/m with a terrible ES/SD, but take it out to 1000 and see.
The fact that guys on here are defending this is proof positive that you can't fix stupid.

That's not what is being argued. What IS being said is single digit ES is not required for achieving pretty satisfactory results at 1000 yds and a bit further. Positive compensation is a thing.

 

[tribb]

Those days are long gone, it's sad

That's sad

 

[Culpeper]

Took my 6.5x300wsm out this morning wanted to shot 3 rounds through it just to verify since I'm taking it to Wyoming in Sept.
Here's a prime example of a load going off of single digit E.S doesn't mean anything, believe the target! E.S. WAS 21 FPS
One on the left was cold bore but could have been me to i shot this with my bi- pod I always do on my hunting rifles.

665 yards. Was this indoors?

 

[Mike6158]

ES, in simplest terms, is about how the powder burns. I wouldn't waste time with seating depth if the ES is 200. I wouldn't worry about my powder charge if the ES is single digits EXCEPT... temperature and barometric pressure changes can effect it. Fizziks are persnickity.

 

[Culpeper]

The subterfuge didn't last long. Please don't use a stick in the snow to make holes.

 

[SSG Graybush]

That's not what is being argued. What IS being said is single digit ES is not required for achieving pretty satisfactory results at 1000 yds and a bit further. Positive compensation is a thing.

That's not what was said. And not completely true either.
Let's look at a common elk factory load. A 300 wm Barnes ttsx 180 gr listed @ 2960 fps 50°, 50%RH.
at 7500 ft altitude
1000 yards/drop
2960 fps= -266.1"
2950 fps= -268.6"
2940 fps= -270.1"

at 1000 ft altitude
1000 yards/drop
2960 fps =318.9"
2950 fps= 321.5"
2940 fps= 324.4"

I would argue that vertical dispersion caused by ES does mean something. When you add vertical dispersion to moa you start to push the limits of the vitals. If you can't hit a 10" round plate constantly at a given distance you shouldnt be taking shots at game that far. .5 moa + 5.5" of vertical dispersion = ~8" group, at 1000 yards.
That being said, I stop developing a load at .5 moa and <15 fps ES.

 

[Barehandlineman11]

That's not what was said. And not completely true either.
Let's look at a common elk factory load. A 300 wm Barnes ttsx 180 gr listed @ 2960 fps 50°, 50%RH.
at 7500 ft altitude
1000 yards/drop
2960 fps= -266.1"
2950 fps= -268.6"
2940 fps= -270.1"

at 1000 ft altitude
1000 yards/drop
2960 fps =318.9"
2950 fps= 321.5"
2940 fps= 324.4"

I would argue that vertical dispersion caused by ES does mean something. When you add vertical dispersion to moa you start to push the limits of the vitals. If you can't hit a 10" round plate constantly at a given distance you shouldnt be taking shots at game that far. .5 moa + 5.5" of vertical dispersion = ~8" group, at 1000 yards.
That being said, I stop developing a load at .5 moa and <15 fps ES.

Man your gonna get the blocked hammer

 

[Culpeper]

That's not what was said. And not completely true either.
Let's look at a common elk factory load. A 300 wm Barnes ttsx 180 gr listed @ 2960 fps 50°, 50%RH.
at 7500 ft altitude
1000 yards/drop
2960 fps= -266.1"
2950 fps= -268.6"
2940 fps= -270.1"

at 1000 ft altitude
1000 yards/drop
2960 fps =318.9"
2950 fps= 321.5"
2940 fps= 324.4"

I would argue that vertical dispersion caused by ES does mean something. When you add vertical dispersion to moa you start to push the limits of the vitals. If you can't hit a 10" round plate constantly at a given distance you shouldnt be taking shots at game that far. .5 moa + 5.5" of vertical dispersion = ~8" group, at 1000 yards.
That being said, I stop developing a load at .5 moa and <15 fps ES.

Your example. 10" target. ES=20 SD=6
With .5 moa rifle. It matches up.

 

[SSG Graybush]

Man your gonna get the blocked hammer

Spitting facts It doesn't do any new reloader any good to read ES really doesn't matter.

 

[SSG Graybush]

Your example. 10" target. ES=20 SD=6
With .5 moa rifle
View attachment 477637
With .5 moa rifle

That is a cool app. What is it?
See that's why I do <15 fps ES with .5 moa, to get that other 1.5% .

 

[Culpeper]

With 15 ES SD 6. The hit percentage goes up to over 99%

 

[Culpeper]

That is a cool app. What is it?
See that's why I do <15 fps ES with .5 moa, to get that other 1.5% .

EBC V2