SIG Kilo 2400 with Applied Ballistics!!

[DocUSMCRetired]

I've only had it a few hours but as far as I can tell MOA/MIL is only selected in the RF not the app. I'll double check and test again today.

When you select a profile in the RF you then page through its settings until is done. It is there you select MOA/MIL. If you select MOA for profile 1 for instance, it defaults to that when you select the next profile.

I don't switch up rifles while hunting and will eventually go all mil one day.

~Robert

We don't want people changing weapon profile settings in the LRF, this is one of the reasons its separated like it is. You can only change Mil/MOA from that one preference. However it is displayed and easily seen in the LRF Reticle.

 

[bogey]

Sounds good. Mine are all the same some really dont' matter to me.
I think most of this is just people trying to get clarifications before buying. Heck I already have one on order

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Sounds good. Mine are all the same some really dont' matter to me.
I think most of this is just people trying to get clarifications before buying. Heck I already have one on order

I agree, and I know there are a lot of questions out there. I am pounding the forums hard to trying to make sure to get them answered as best as I can. I have been fielding this unit for a year now. That's a year of R&D, and Testing in the field, at matches, by users, at seminars etc... What we have ended up with, is a culmination of compromise from all this.

 

[true1911]

Think of this pro. If your buddy or a friend is working in a different system, you can with the press of a button change over, help them out, then change back to what you are doing. I don't think you are going to be confused, it says "MIL" or "MOA" In the reticle.

Doc,
I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

To clarify, I'm talking about Mils/MOA not Yards/Meters.

Let's use your example: You and your buddy are out hunting. You're buddies using a "different system." We're going to assume that your buddy needs more help than just the corrected range (otherwise this would be moot).

You have two profiles loaded in your Sig 2400. Yours, which is profile 1, a 28 Nosler with a mil scope on it, and your buddies which is profile 2, a 300 WM with a MOA scope on it.

Your buddy spots a buck and says,"I'm going to shoot that one, give me my hold!"You go into the rangefinder, switch profiles to the 300WM (Profile 2), range the deer and tell your buddy, "hold two-point-five." He shoots and misses. He missed because he held 2.5 MOA and the rangefinder said hold 2.5 mils which he has no reference on his scope for. The rangefinder was giving you mils because that's what you shoot and you forgot to go change that setting while under pressure to give him his hold.

After his miss you realize the problem, go back into the rangefinder, change the setting to MOA, and give him the correct hold. After his second shot, a monster buck appears, you change back to your 7mm profile (Profile 1) in the Sig 2400, range the monster, dial 7.5 mils and miss. You then realize that the rangefinder gave you MOA instead of the Mils your scope dials in because you didn't change that setting when you switched back to Profile 1.

What I'm getting at is that the profiles you set up in the app should be the only place you can change MOA/mils. If my "Profile 1" is a 28 Nosler with a MIL scope I should input that info into the app and then not be able to change it unless I edit the profile in the app. Rangefinder should automatically switch between MOA and Mils based on what the profile calls for. There's no advantage or reason for it not to do this. If your buddy is using a "different system" and all he needs is the corrected range then it doesn't matter whether the rangefinder is working in Mils or MOA because all you're going to give him is the range. There is no need to have mils or MOA in the rangefinder unless you have a profile attached to it.

The G7 has the Mils/MOA designation locked to the profile which is how it should be. When you switch profiles it switches to MOA or Mils or holds based on how you setup the profile.

Hopefully that makes more sense and hopefully this is an easy software/firmware update. This seems like a big problem for me because I use both MOA and Mil based scopes on a regular basis. That being said I haven't actually used a 2400 yet and maybe it won't be that hard to remember to switch back and forth. If you disagree, at least consider the option of letting the user choose if they want Mils/MOA locked to the profile.

Does this make more sense and do I understand how the rangefinder works or am I the one missing the point?

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Doc,
- Snip -

When you change profiles on the Sig Kilo, you have to pass through the MILS/MOA selection to get back to the ranging function. So you would essentially have gone through that setting without changing it as a user.

I get what you are saying. This is how the Sig 2400 was designed to function.

 

[true1911]

When you change profiles on the Sig Kilo, you have to pass through the MILS/MOA selection to get back to the ranging function. So you would essentially have gone through that setting without changing it as a user.

I get what you are saying. This is how the Sig 2400 was designed to function.

Doc,
I'm trying to understand why it would be that way. That's two things to change instead of just one and I'm not seeing any advantage. The Applied Ballistics App doesn't do this and handles this the correct way. What is the advantage or reason for the extra step?

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Doc,
I'm trying to understand why it would be that way. That's two things to change instead of just one and I'm not seeing any advantage. The Applied Ballistics App doesn't do this and handles this the correct way. What is the advantage or reason for the extra step?

In the standard app, you get all of the solutions. Swipe left or right, and you will cycle through MOA - MILS - Clicks. (Not the Sig Kilo App)

The reason is because we did not want users editing the rifle profiles on the device, if even by accident. All edits to the profile need to be done on the app, but MOA or MILS is a setting inside the device.

 

[true1911]

In the standard app, you get all of the solutions. Swipe left or right, and you will cycle through MOA - MILS - Clicks. (Not the Sig Kilo App)

The reason is because we did not want users editing the rifle profiles on the device, if even by accident. All edits to the profile need to be done on the app, but MOA or MILS is a setting inside the device.

I must be missing something. I'll wait and let those that have used the rangefinder chime in. No offense but your answer makes me think we're still not on the same page or talking about the same thing.

Originally Posted by RobStar View Post
My Ruger is set up MILS and my Proof rifle is MOA. * If you use both you absolutely must remember to change that manually when you cycle between profiles. MOA/MILS is set global for the rangefinder, NOT by the profile. To the MFR I'd recommend that setting be profile specific on the next firmware upgrade if possible as it is on my G7. Otherwise it could really bone you or maybe I'm the only guy who has both MIL/MOA systems.

~Robert

 

[RobStar]

I love this thing so far!

The MOA / MILs thing is not a deal killer for me or anywhere close to it.

I will try the swipe back and forth thing after I leave the gym this morning. However, that process assumes I'll have my app and phone fired up while hunting which is not always likely or practical for me.

Either way, linking MOA and mil to each profile independently as it is on my G7 would be a nice feature to look forward to in the future if you get enough requests for it.

Thanks Doc! I'm not being critical just seeking knowledge.

~Robert

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I love this thing so far!

The MOA / MILs thing is not a deal killer for me or anywhere close to it.

I will try the swipe back and forth thing after I leave the gym this morning. However, that process assumes I'll have my app and phone fired up while hunting which is not always likely or practical for me.

Either way, linking MOA and mil to each profile independently as it is on my G7 would be a nice feature to look forward to in the future if you get enough requests for it.

Thanks Doc! I'm not being critical just seeking knowledge.

~Robert

The swipe left/right thing is in the AB Mobile app only -> Applied Ballistics Mobile App - Online Guide - Applied Ballistics LLC. Just want to make sure we are on the same page.

 

[RobStar]

As promised I ran out to the range for some quick comparisons between the Kilo 2400 and my gen 2 G7 BR2. I didn't have time to shoot nor is this a scientific test by any measure.

Everything was handheld braced against my body or elbows resting on the shooong bench. I didn't do any tests with the app beyond syncing my Ruger 6.5 profile last night.

The day is slightly overcast and the range berms are torward the south, thus some significant sun / light into the lenses. I ranged as well looking north toward some housing, open land and a school.

The viewfinder is slightly brighter for the G7 due to the larger glass I'm sure. They eyepiece of the 2400 adjusted to my old eyes and glasses just fine but I'd give the G7 the advantage with the slightly brighter optics and the larger eyepiece that is more forgiving to less than perfect eye placement. The 2400 has a smaller sweet spot for your eye placement.

The most significant thing I noticed was pure speed of the ranging on the 2400. At 1200 yards the 2400 gave instant yardage and a mil based solution in two seconds. Basically if the 2400 gets a lock you get instant yardage out to the 2116 yards I could get it to lock on. The G7 takes two seconds to give you a lock at 1200 and a little over four seconds for a solution. The closer you are the less time to get solutions on both RFs but the 2400 didn't lose the initial two seconds to give yardage so you always save that time.

I ranged steel targets out to 865 yards, desert scrub out to 1200 and hillside rocks/outcroppings to about 1400 above the range looking into the sun. Both units had challenges at 1400 plus on scrub but the 2400 was more consistent overall.

Looking north toward the houses out in that flattish area there are scattered construction trucks and front end loaders all ranged well at 1200-1300 with the 2400 but a definite challenge with the G7. Neither were perfect but the 2400 was far more consistent maybe due to the smaller reticle circle. I have nothing to base that on. The school was at 2116 yards and the G7 would not range that at all but I dont think it's in that spec and even if it did it will not give a ballistics solution beyond 1400 yards. Once the 2400 locked on I got instant yardage and a solution two secs later.

This was not a scientific controlled test, just me at the range for about 45 mins not shooting. I'm an elk hunter not a long range shooting expert. Ask me some questions and maybe I can offer some part of my limited experience with the 2400 that I didn't include here or think about.

I'm going home to clean up my G7 to sell it.

~Robert

 

[Andy Backus]

The viewfinder is slightly brighter for the G7 due to the larger glass I'm sure. They eyepiece of the 2400 adjusted to my old eyes and glasses just fine but I'd give the G7 the advantage with the slightly brighter optics and the larger eyepiece that is more forgiving to less than perfect eye placement. The 2400 has a smaller sweet spot for your eye placement.

I noticed that the G7 BR2 was brighter at mid-day also. I was pleased that in low light they seemed identical to me.

 

[Blkz06]

As promised I ran out to the range for some quick comparisons between the Kilo 2400 and my gen 2 G7 BR2. I didn't have time to shoot nor is this a scientific test by any measure.

Everything was handheld braced against my body or elbows resting on the shooong bench. I didn't do any tests with the app beyond syncing my Ruger 6.5 profile last night.

The day is slightly overcast and the range berms are torward the south, thus some significant sun / light into the lenses. I ranged as well looking north toward some housing, open land and a school.

The viewfinder is slightly brighter for the G7 due to the larger glass I'm sure. They eyepiece of the 2400 adjusted to my old eyes and glasses just fine but I'd give the G7 the advantage with the slightly brighter optics and the larger eyepiece that is more forgiving to less than perfect eye placement. The 2400 has a smaller sweet spot for your eye placement.

The most significant thing I noticed was pure speed of the ranging on the 2400. At 1200 yards the 2400 gave instant yardage and a mil based solution in two seconds. Basically if the 2400 gets a lock you get instant yardage out to the 2116 yards I could get it to lock on. The G7 takes two seconds to give you a lock at 1200 and a little over four seconds for a solution. The closer you are the less time to get solutions on both RFs but the 2400 didn't lose the initial two seconds to give yardage so you always save that time.

I ranged steel targets out to 865 yards, desert scrub out to 1200 and hillside rocks/outcroppings to about 1400 above the range looking into the sun. Both units had challenges at 1400 plus on scrub but the 2400 was more consistent overall.

Looking north toward the houses out in that flattish area there are scattered construction trucks and front end loaders all ranged well at 1200-1300 with the 2400 but a definite challenge with the G7. Neither were perfect but the 2400 was far more consistent maybe due to the smaller reticle circle. I have nothing to base that on. The school was at 2116 yards and the G7 would not range that at all but I dont think it's in that spec and even if it did it will not give a ballistics solution beyond 1400 yards. Once the 2400 locked on I got instant yardage and a solution two secs later.

This was not a scientific controlled test, just me at the range for about 45 mins not shooting. I'm an elk hunter not a long range shooting expert. Ask me some questions and maybe I can offer some part of my limited experience with the 2400 that I didn't include here or think about.

I'm going home to clean up my G7 to sell it.

~Robert

I appreciate this insight and info...I really do.

And I don't want to come off as unappreciative by writing this, but I am hoping that someone can use these things on real life animals, because everything else is just an exercise in fantasy land.

My Leica 1600-B will range out on water towers and houses to almost 1500 yards. Its only rated for about 900 yards on deer type items, so the fact that it performs better on reflective items would make one think that you are GTG on animals out close to that range, but its disappointing to find out that in real life conditions, 700-800 yards is what I get. Sometimes not even that. Which is OK, because it was 700.00 and doesn't make claims of 1000 yard abilities on deer.

Hopefully we get some real-world soft target reviews on this 2400 that roll in soon. Its definitely a game changer if its 95% of what its being hyped.

 

[RobStar]

Me too! We have wild burros and wild horses here near my house but I didn't have time to try to find them. We have bighorn sheep as well but where they hang there's no way to get back very far. Today I just did a quick run out after the gym and will try to do more as I have time.

~Robert