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Shoulder growing problem

Yes, it happened after collet die, everytime on Lapua brass, the body die was setting the neck so it wasn't gonna grow just sitting there, I'll have to adjust LCD accordingly for the brass I'm using, the instructions can go in the garbage.
Thicker necks are the culprit here yes, I'm convinced now. Different manufactures vary in neck thickness.

Yo 6pak, do me a favor and email Lee and let them know the issue and they'll probably tell you user error like I did, but at least I see what your saying and agree with you. Took me a bit and used other experiences that were similar. I tried to talk to a rep about something and he fed some real dusies for reasons why I had the problem.
 
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When you squeeze down the neck onto a mandrel the brass has to flow somewhere and it goes to the shoulder. You are also pushing forward on the case with a good amount of pressure as the neck is clamped down. I can see the shoulder moving forward. Perhaps lightening up on the sizing force would apply less pressure on the shoulder
Makes sense... I'm convinced. Kinda like FL sizing too much and the case has to be trimmed. The brass has to go somewhere, ya learn something every day !
 
Makes sense... I'm convinced. Kinda like FL sizing too much and the case has to be trimmed. The brass has to go somewhere, ya learn something every day !
I don't bother calling Lee anymore, everytime I get some guy that argues anything you say, one time he told me the bullet should seat to the exact same oal everytime with no adjustment, I said what if one neck is more work hardened, what if one is thicker brass, well he then backed off his claim, I really wonder if these guys know much about reloading.
 
I don't bother calling Lee anymore, everytime I get some guy that argues anything you say, one time he told me the bullet should seat to the exact same oal everytime with no adjustment, I said what if one neck is more work hardened, what if one is thicker brass, well he then backed off his claim, I really wonder if these guys know much about reloading.
Yeah and his name was John, right ? I made an oversized mandrel for my collet die but it doesn't work, he tried to tell me about my bore being oversized, I hung up on him. . 🤣For years it was the same gal and one guy who handled phone calls.
I learned to compare OAL of bullets, that helped some for COAL. I'd like to get the add on mic for my Redding seaters.
 
Yeah and his name was John, right ?🤣 For years it was the same gal and one guy who handled phone calls.
I learned to compare OAL of bullets, that helped some for COAL. I'd like to get the add on mic for my Redding seaters.
I didn't think I needed the mic but after I got one with it I converted my other ones, just makes it much easier.
 
@6pakzac
Lee must have changed the diameter of the decapping pin since I bought mine. Are you using small primer Lapua or large?
The 6.5 was small primer and the hole was smaller than 223 hole, I think it was just particular to that Lapua brass, have no idea why they made it so small, I returned it and got large primer brass.
 
Need to add, using a full-length sizing die to push back the shoulders is not the same as a Lee Collet and Redding Body as the brass gets worked way way too much. This is fine if you anneal, and accuracy will be great.

To obtain accuracy, the less one works their brass the less they need to anneal if at all. If you use full length dies, you must anneal often to obtain consistent accuracy. For hunting bullets annealing is not necessary, but if you are shooting 600 or 1000 yards annealing is a must.

I believe most are like me and do not enjoy annealing.
Ha, I like annealing
 
I just another collet die tonight, the bottom portion is smaller diameter, I guess to make it easier to find the case mouth.
 
Ha, I like annealing
Problem with full length die with expanders is expander knocking neck out of whack, just a little uneven pressure on base by shell holder will knock it out as it's pulling out of die not to mention really working the neck, how good is that for neck tension. Friends don't let friends use FL die with expander, lol.
 
I just another collet die tonight, the bottom portion is smaller diameter, I guess to make it easier to find the case mouth.
If you notice the new lee collet dies have a step in the mandrel around 1/3 of the way up, the old ones did not and would kinda pop as case came out of die, this was because they were a tiny bit thicker at the end, you could actually feel a little more pressure just as mandrel came out, I didn't like this cause it was sizing where it wasn't meant to size. I took the mandrel out and lightly tapered it at the end by chucking in drill and 1200 sandpaper, eliminated the pop and reduced my runout. I called Lee about it and he told me the pop was from the case going from the mandrel to nothing, I said why do I feel more pressure on handle as it's coming out at end of mandrel, he said cause press has less strength on the upstroke which may be true but all of a sudden as neck came through end? Anyways now they step the mandrel so obviously there was a reason for it, the end with the decapping pin was slightly thicker just before it went down to the pin and it shouldn't be. So I don't call Lee anymore.
 
Problem with full length die with expanders is expander knocking neck out of whack, just a little uneven pressure on base by shell holder will knock it out as it's pulling out of die not to mention really working the neck, how good is that for neck tension. Friends don't let friends use FL die with expander, lol.
the shell holder dimensions are loose to allow the case to float. The expander/decapper in the die is suppose to float but not enough in my opinion. Forster has a rubber washer between thier bushing and lock nut to allow floating, and the elevated expander. It really doesn't do good job. I went to 21st/sinclair expanders, then to body/collet neck die.
 
Here is the video I watched that explains and shows my mistake I was making..I hope it helps.


JMHO, but I believe this to smell like the south end of a north bound bull. It just so happened that I needed to size some GT brass yesterday and I remembered this video. So I tried it my normal way, complete the stroke and reverse course as well as the double pump and twist method of the video. There was no difference in shoulder bump length according to my measurements.

Now, I don't believe the guy making the video to be lying. Maybe he has brass that is really work hardened and doesn't anneal? I anneal every firing so I can't say. If that's the case it seems like he needs to adjust his die so he gets the proper bump the first time. When I started reloading I didn't anneal and I seem to remember having to adjust my die more often. Now I might have to make a very small tweak after a couple firings, but then it's pretty much set for the life of the brass. I'm shooting competitions and my brass is high quality, Alpha and Lapua, and gets many cycles on it. I would think if this was to rear it's ugly head I would have picked up on it by now.
 
JMHO, but I believe this to smell like the south end of a north bound bull. It just so happened that I needed to size some GT brass yesterday and I remembered this video. So I tried it my normal way, complete the stroke and reverse course as well as the double pump and twist method of the video. There was no difference in shoulder bump length according to my measurements.

Now, I don't believe the guy making the video to be lying. Maybe he has brass that is really work hardened and doesn't anneal? I anneal every firing so I can't say. If that's the case it seems like he needs to adjust his die so he gets the proper bump the first time. When I started reloading I didn't anneal and I seem to remember having to adjust my die more often. Now I might have to make a very small tweak after a couple firings, but then it's pretty much set for the life of the brass. I'm shooting competitions and my brass is high quality, Alpha and Lapua, and gets many cycles on it. I would think if this was to rear it's ugly head I would have picked up on it by now.
That one had me scratching my head as well.

Brass has a given amount of spring when you work it. Nothing you can do working the press is going to change that amount of spring at least not that I've ever found other than reworking it over and over which of course hardens it even more but you still end up with the same amount of spring.
 

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