Shoulder growing problem

[milboltnut]

Here is the video I watched that explains and shows my mistake I was making..I hope it helps.

 

[6pakzak]

I anneal everytime, I don't mix lots of brass, the shoulder is bumped with the Redding body die exactly where I want it, after Lee collet die I check shoulder again and it is about .001 further up then it was after body die and I understand that if I back off body die that the shoulder will grow

 

[WildRose]

I anneal everytime, I don't mix lots of brass, the shoulder is bumped with the Redding body die exactly where I want it, after Lee collet die I check shoulder again and it is about .001 further up then it was after body die and I understand that if I back off body die that the shoulder will grow

If the Collet die is only working the neck it baffles me that you're seeing a growth in the length from the case head to the datum line.

Wait, just to clarify, are you seeing an increase in that length or are you seeing an increase in diameter at the datum line?

If your neck die is bottoming out against the shoulder it's conceivable that it would cause an expansion of the body/shoulder junction.

 

[MLN1963]

To the original poster. Your .059" flash hole has been damaged using the Lee Collet die. At least my Lee collet die stem is too large. You might want to double check yours.

 

[6pakzak]

If the Collet die is only working the neck it baffles me that you're seeing a growth in the length from the case head to the datum line. Wait, just to clarify, are you seeing an increase in that length or are you seeing an increase in diameter at the datum line? If your neck die is bottoming out against the shoulder it's conceivable that it would cause an expansion of the body/shoulder junction.

Ok, just backed off LCD, instead of growing .001 it grew .0005, I'm about a half turn in from touching shell plate, ok, just checked diameter of body shoulder junction before going through LCD and it increased about .0005 after going through LCD first, shoulder also grew .0005,

To the original poster. Your .059" flash hole has been damaged using the Lee Collet die. At least my Lee collet die stem is too large. You might want to double check yours.

Flash hole is fine, just checked on new Lapua brass, plenty of clearance, I also don't decap with it.

 

[WildRose]

Ok, just backed off LCD, instead of growing .001 it grew .0005, I'm about a half turn in from touching shell plate, ok, just checked diameter of body shoulder junction before going through LCD and it increased about .0005 after going through LCD first, shoulder also grew .0005,
Flash hole is fine, just checked on new Lapua brass, plenty of clearance, I also don't decap with it.

Ok so to be clear we're talking about a growth in diameter of the case at the Datum liine/junction of case with shoulder correct?

If it's reducing, then I'd back off a hair more.

 

[MLN1963]

@6pakzac
Lee must have changed the diameter of the decapping pin since I bought mine. Are you using small primer Lapua or large?

 

[6pakzak]

@6pakzac
Lee must have changed the diameter of the decapping pin since I bought mine. Are you using small primer Lapua or large?

Its 223 so it's small, I did have 6.5 Lapua with small primers and the hole was smaller than decapper, I had to sand it down

 

[6pakzak]

Ok so to be clear we're talking about a growth in diameter of the case at the Datum liine/junction of case with shoulder correct?

If it's reducing, then I'd back off a hair more.

Yes in datum line and shoulder moving upwards, I backed off about an 1/8 and got to growth to stop, I went another 1/8 and could push bullet in by hand so I guess it's a fine line and very specific to case and shell holder and press, rounds have shot well, I never checked the shoulder bump after collet before, I'm adding in that extra .001 since they were shooting good that way.

 

[milboltnut]

sounds like you have a cheap set of calipers or they are dirty. I have Harbor freight calipers and I check them against feeler gauges and they are right on. Make sure the blades are clean and zeroed.

 

[Dean2]

When you squeeze down the neck onto a mandrel the brass has to flow somewhere and it goes to the shoulder. You are also pushing forward on the case with a good amount of pressure as the neck is clamped down. I can see the shoulder moving forward. Perhaps lightening up on the sizing force would apply less pressure on the shoulder

Spot on. This is exactly what is happening. The thicker the neck on a case the more you will notice it. Exactly the same thing that happens when you FL size a belted mag. Brass has to go somewhere so it makes a bulge just above the belt that eventually means you can no longer use the case.

 

[milboltnut]

My necks are turned, so yeah, didn't think about that ! However..... I checked new brass HS, not neck collet sized, and my new brass that I'm gonna fire form... necked collet sized, and the HS, on both, are the same. I checked collet neck sized cases and a couple are off but the rest are the same. So I'm convinced the Lee die in my situation is to blame. It does sound like maybe your brass is different IDK. Shouldn't be. Maybe a closer inspection of the die.

 

[6pakzak]

sounds like you have a cheap set of calipers or they are dirty. I have Harbor freight calipers and I check them against feeler gauges and they are right on. Make sure the blades are clean and zeroed.

Calipers are fine, only noticed it cause I measured after using collet die which I didn't do before, even changed calipers, backing off of collet die is what made it stop.

 

[6pakzak]

My necks are turned, so yeah, didn't think about that ! However..... I checked new brass HS, not neck collet sized, and my new brass that I'm gonna fire form... necked collet sized, and the HS, on both, are the same. I checked collet neck sized cases and a couple are off but the rest are the same. So I'm convinced the Lee die is to blame.

Yes, it happened after collet die, everytime on Lapua brass, the body die was setting the neck so it wasn't gonna grow just sitting there, I'll have to adjust LCD accordingly for the brass I'm using, the instructions can go in the garbage.