Shoulder growing problem

[milboltnut]

Maybe I need to back off collet and see what happens, ain't home now so can't try it till later.

I turn my collet die a little more than 3/4 of a turn past touching the shell holder.... the collet is completely closed and no change in shoulder set back.

 

[WildRose]

I'm using a Redding body die, it will set back the shoulder and not touch the neck, I have seen other people on other forums also bring this up, it seems to be brass dependant cause some some stay the same after collet die, noticing it on Lapua brass, maybe a little thicker, now that I'm thinking about it maybe I need to back off Lapua brass cause I notice more pressure when running it through collet die.

Ok that plus reading back helps.

When we resize brass it can "grow", that's why we end up having to trim brass for length occasionally.

If you're using the body die first then it seems that it would make sense for the shoulder perhaps to be pushed forward a bit.

My suggestion would be this, run a piece of fired brass through the body die and see then if it chambers easily.

Then run it through the neck sizing die and repeat.

If you see any difference in how much pressure it takes to close the bolt at some point you're pushing that body/shoulder junction forward.

Now reverse and repeat, neck size first, check for chambering, then run through the body die and repeat.

Are you getting different results or does it appear you're pushing the shoulder forward no matter what you do or in what order?

 

[WildRose]

When you squeeze down the neck onto a mandrel the brass has to flow somewhere and it goes to the shoulder. You are also pushing forward on the case with a good amount of pressure as the neck is clamped down. I can see the shoulder moving forward. Perhaps lightening up on the sizing force would apply less pressure on the shoulder

You will need to segregate your brass by brand for reloading purposes. Lapua is thicker and heavier than other brands and will not work to the same tolerances as other brands using the same setup.

Treat/work the Lapua completely separately.

You can also get some serious issues with mixed brass due to different volumes resulting from different thicknesses. This can cause you to get a whole lot more pressure from an equal charge in Lapua brass vs lighter and thinner brass.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Are you annealing every firing?
You could be getting some springback of your body sized brass.

 

[milboltnut]

Are you annealing every firing?
You could be getting some springback of your body sized brass.

He is, but hopefully he will take my advice. And yes annealing every firing yes !

 

[Stonyman88]

I was checking the shoulder on some rounds I made and noticed the shoulder moved up about .001 to .0015, been setting it with Redding body die and then taking through lee collet die so the collet die is making it grow a little, would it make more sense to first use collet die and then body die, seems backwards to me but this way shoulder should be where I want it, make sense?

Full length just short of full size, don't hit the shoulder, it will grow in length when you do, now bump the shoulder back to what you want, they will almost grow in length because of the streach when you full length them. the brass has to go some place, To check this measure the brass before you full length it, then after, and you'll see it grew some, bump the shoulder back and trip the total length if needed.

 

[milboltnut]

Full length just short of full size, don't hit the shoulder, it will grow in length when you do, now bump the shoulder back to what you want, they will almost grow in length because of the streach when you full length them. the brass has to go some place, To check this measure the brass before you full length it, then after, and you'll see it grew some, bump the shoulder back and trim the total length if needed.

won't have to if shoulder bumped unless you completely over camming the die.

 

[spladi]

I was checking the shoulder on some rounds I made and noticed the shoulder moved up about .001 to .0015, been setting it with Redding body die and then taking through lee collet die so the collet die is making it grow a little, would it make more sense to first use collet die and then body die, seems backwards to me but this way shoulder should be where I want it, make sense?

Brass has a tendency to spring back

 

[Western4444]

I was checking the shoulder on some rounds I made and noticed the shoulder moved up about .001 to .0015, been setting it with Redding body die and then taking through lee collet die so the collet die is making it grow a little, would it make more sense to first use collet die and then body die, seems backwards to me but this way shoulder should be where I want it, make sense?

I exactly understand your issue. I do not anneal, so my brass grows a little and becomes a little harder after each shooting. And yes, use the collet die first as the Redding Die needs to be reset a little more after each time shot. The first piece of brass with the body die gets measured to make sure it is pushed back 3/1000 or so. The more times I shoot a set a brass the tighter I need to set the body die. This is because brass has a little more springiness to it after each time shot and wants to go back to its shot position, but by pushing it a little more it stays in the 3/1000 or so. I have had individual pieces of brass that would not push back the 3/1000 with the body die, but very very few. I toss those, they just keep springing back. Of the 1000s of reloads I have had, maybe 5 or 6 I had to throw out.

I size I get about 10 times shot from my brass using the above process without annealing using the above process. I never mix brass batches, always sizing 50 at a time. If you start mixing different time shot brass, all bets are off on consistency. I measure and inspect each brass after they are shot, then neck size and measure again, then body size as described above, and then clean my brass. It is then ready for shooting. I don't like to anneal, and found this process work well for me. I shoot 1000 yards almost weekly and shot sub-MOA groups. Key here is measuring your brass, collet and body size exactly the same for every piece of brass.

I have a new 6.8 Western and they have not come out with a Lee Collet Die or Redding Body Die yet, so I need to full length die. I need to anneal after 4 times shooting, otherwise can't get the same results as with the Lee and Redding Dies. Brass is stiff and accuracy is down

The reason we can get so many brass uses is because the Lee Collet Die does not work the brass as other neck sizing die processes as it does not have a mandrel working the brass less. I use 20 foot-pounds of force when neck sizing all brass with the Lee Collet Die. The brass gets pushed back just enough to hold the bullet tight. And the Redding Body Die just pushes the shoulders back as needed to get the 3/1000.

 

[WildRose]

Full length just short of full size, don't hit the shoulder, it will grow in length when you do, now bump the shoulder back to what you want, they will almost grow in length because of the streach when you full length them. the brass has to go some place, To check this measure the brass before you full length it, then after, and you'll see it grew some, bump the shoulder back and trip the total length if needed.

Huh? How is going to grow in size bumping the shoulder back?

 

[WildRose]

won't have to if shoulder bumped unless you completely over camming the die.

After several loadings it's pretty common for necks to grow in length just from being worked. Every time you work brass it flows, if you full length size and bump the shoulders there's a limit on where it can go.

 

[Western4444]

Need to add, using a full-length sizing die to push back the shoulders is not the same as a Lee Collet and Redding Body as the brass gets worked way way too much. This is fine if you anneal, and accuracy will be great.

To obtain accuracy, the less one works their brass the less they need to anneal if at all. If you use full length dies, you must anneal often to obtain consistent accuracy. For hunting bullets annealing is not necessary, but if you are shooting 600 or 1000 yards annealing is a must.

I believe most are like me and do not enjoy annealing.

 

[Alibiiv]

I was checking the shoulder on some rounds I made and noticed the shoulder moved up about .001 to .0015, been setting it with Redding body die and then taking through lee collet die so the collet die is making it grow a little, would it make more sense to first use collet die and then body die, seems backwards to me but this way shoulder should be where I want it, make sense?

I'm just curious about when was the last time these cases were annealed??

 

[redneckdan]

I've had best luck with the lee collet/body die method when I anneal the cases. The body die gets set for a lot of brass and never has to be adjusted for the life of that brass. I had an issue one time with a lot 9f 6 creedmoor brass in the 2nd generation collet dies. The 2nd generation does not size the whole neck. A small portion at the mouth is left unsized and sort of acts like a funnel to guide the bullet into place. For some reason, this lot of brass was hanging the funnel up in the die during extraction and stretching the necks out. I put a washer over the shell hold to change the timing of the die and the funnel/problem went away.