Shoulder bump problem or no problem?

[Tac-O]

It could be I suppose. I'm cleaning my one unsized case at the moment, and will sharpie the entire thing up and try it again. I will look at that a little harder.
Good luck with yours, and keep me filled in on your progress. I've forgotten, what cartridge are you working with?
I'm using a neck bushing with mine. .363, so any donut I wouldn't think is getting pushed to the outside. Anything is sure possible though. I'm looking at everything and hopefully something will make sense.

I'm shooting a 30-284ai starting with 284win brass.

So you're only using a bushing and not an mandrel to expand either? If that is the case, any donut issue would still be on the inside of the neck for you and I would bet that you're not having the same problem as me.

 

[Culpeper]

I may be completely mis-understanding the problem, but there was a company making a collet type sizing die for belted magnums (think Weatherby) to size the bottom of the brass without shoving the shoulder back a bunch. If you can't get it figured out maybe call them and see if they can make a die to do that for your non-belted case so you don't have to bump the shoulders back so much every time and overwork the brass.

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I know it's a 2 step process and a PITA, but if that's what it takes so you don't overwork brass, then that's what you gotta do.

I use that in .300 H&H.

 

[Culpeper]

I appreciate all the input guys. Who knows how many years of knowledge and experience I'm getting here.
I'll do some more testing on it tomorrow. Too much going on this evening

Measure unfired brass with fired brass at the thickest part of the head.

 

[Tidesloe]

I'm shooting a 30-284ai starting with 284win brass.

So you're only using a bushing and not an mandrel to expand either? If that is the case, any donut issue would still be on the inside of the neck for you and I would bet that you're not having the same problem as me.

Yes, I don't believe I am. I'm gonna look into a completely new line of thought this evening that hasn't been mentioned here yet. It could be throwing a dart at the board, but we'll see. I did end up working with it a bit last night. Sharpied an entire case up and chambered. I'm really not seeing anything of much concern. I also looked at the chamber with a bore scope. Don't really see anything there either.

 

[Tidesloe]

Measure unfired brass with fired brass at the thickest part of the head.

Measure unfired brass with fired brass at the thickest part of the head.

Do you mean measure the web growth?

 

[Tidesloe]

If anyone happens to still be hanging around here, I have an update and could use some help. I might be looking at something completely different here. I remeasured everything today, and got .006 bump before my bolt handle closed with no resistance. I hadn't thought about this, probably should have. I'm using an origin action. It's got a removable bolt head with a spring between the bolt head and bolt body. It's got a little bit of spring action. I measured from back of bolt to bolt face, then back of bolt to bolt face with it sprung in as far as it would go and got .006 difference. I think this is what I'm dealing with. The spring is not real strong, but the extractor grabs the rim and pushes it slightly off center. Maybe enough to cause chamber shoulder to contact case and gives some pressure until it's sized back .006. Seems the case must turn in the chamber closing and opening the bolt, but I could be wrong. The bolt head is apparently holding case against the chamber shoulder, and yes causing clickers until that pressure is gone. I guess that's gonna be unavoidable with this action. What I don't get is how to tell when I've fully formed to my chamber. Based on the above it seems like I am, but I'd like to know for sure my fully formed dimension and bump from there.
Have any of you ever worked with these type actions, and know the nuances of them?

 

[ChrisInKY]

I'm using an origin action. It's got a removable bolt head with a spring between the bolt head and bolt body. It's got a little bit of spring action. I measured from back of bolt to bolt face, then back of bolt to bolt face with it sprung in as far as it would go and got .006 difference.

That's not a process I've applied in the past.

I might be looking at something completely different here. I remeasured everything today, and got .006 bump before my bolt handle closed with no resistance.

No resistance means that spring action is _not_ part of the equation.

I guess that's gonna be unavoidable with this action.

Maybe not. Depends on 'if' you can get rid of that spring

What I don't get is how to tell when I've fully formed to my chamber. Based on the above it seems like I am, but I'd like to know for sure my fully formed dimension and bump from there.

They've got that putty you can stuff in there and make a casting. Never used it myself.

Me? I'd be confident measuring 20 or 30 cases (once, twice, thrice fired shouldn't make much difference either) and ball-parking the actual dimensions.

 

[Tac-O]

That's interesting. I'd call the action mfg to talk about it to see if it could be causing the issues your seeing.

I would also just bump the shoulder back 0.001, or none, as long as you can still chamber th case. Then fire it and measure case dimensions. Do that a couple times and you should see what your true dimensions are.

 

[Tidesloe]

View attachment 536335This is a pic of the mark at the web. It's really small but obviously making contact.

Maybe not. Depends on 'if' you can get rid of that spring

I can get rid of that spring. The more I'm thinking about it, I'd have to do that to determine my distance to lands. It affects seating depth and shoulder bump. Something new to learn to deal with I guess

 

[Tidesloe]

That's interesting. I'd call the action mfg to talk about it to see if it could be causing the issues your seeing.

I would also just bump the shoulder back 0.001, or none, as long as you can still chamber th case. Then fire it and measure case dimensions. Do that a couple times and you should see what your true dimensions are.

I believe I will call them up. It changes things. I'd be .006 short on distance to lands, as well as the problem with bumping shoulders. Seems it'll be completely different process to figure out

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Did you take the firing pin out, and see how they chamber? When setting my dies, I take out firing pin and ejector/spring if it has it. That added tension, can give you a false sense of tension. Especially if the trigger/bolt is not perfectly timed.

 

[Tidesloe]

Did you take the firing pin out, and see how they chamber? When setting my dies, I take out firing pin and ejector/spring if it has it. That added tension, can give you a false sense of tension. Especially if the trigger/bolt is not perfectly timed.

Yes, I removed firing pin and it's got a fixed blade ejector. No ejector in the bolt face

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Is the resistance creating swipe on the back of the case when you chamber?

Have you tried to shoot lower end charge weights with this fireformed brass?

I think my SR3 did this, but no longer have it. I know my Savages give me that extra little bit of "push" as they tighten down when locking the lugs/bolts down.

 

[Tidesloe]

Is the resistance creating swipe on the back of the case when you chamber?

Have you tried to shoot lower end charge weights with this fireformed brass?

I think my SR3 did this, but no longer have it. I know my Savages give me that extra little bit of "push" as they tighten down when locking the lugs/bolts down.

I haven't looked at a swipe real close, but could be. All I've fired are low charge fire forming loads so far