^^^^^ Exactly. On all accounts.
Should you talk with the Police?
- Thread starter Marplot
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Deputy819
Well-Known Member
My quote that you included in your post was not to the OP nor specifically the situation presented by the OP.
No, I don’t have any tips for “refocusing”. We conduct our initial investigation and process evidence as it is laid out before us upon our arrival. Everything is put into a reporting database and is submitted to the Commonwealth Attorney (in Kentucky) for additional review. At that point it would be rendered non-prosecutable for lack of “criminal intent” (in the case of self-defense) or would be submitted to a Grand Jury for further scrutinization. That’s it. Are you suggesting that the police should “bias” their findings/investigation before it ever see’s a courtroom (“refocusing”)?
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Deputy819
Well-Known Member
One more thing. Unless there was compelling evidence at the scene (of an alleged “self-defense” situation) that suggested it was NOT self defense there most likely wouldn’t be an arrest……at least NOT in my jurisdiction. If it is found later to NOT be the case then a warrant would be issued and the arrest effected.
I'd suggest following attorneys advice for your state. There is lots of armchair quarterbacks who have no experience yet speak like they have knowledge. Here are two I listen to: Houston attorneys
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
In any shooting scenario, it has been said that the shooter should only explain that they were "in fear for their life" and nothing else. I think this is good advice. Sadly, we see far too many lawful firearm owners getting arrested when they are actually the victim of a crime. Making any kind of statement, in the absence of your attorney, is highly likely to be used against you by an unscrupulous prosecutor.
Shooting a fleeing robber can never be a good thing, no matter what you say.
Shooting a fleeing robber can never be a good thing, no matter what you say.
Let's face it, if you're in CA or NY, or NOLA, wherever there are radical leftist DAs you're likely better off just saying I was attacked and in fear of my life, lawyer. Around here I know most of the LEOs, so not too worried. I trust them more than most lawyers to be honest.
With it you have a license do make laws as you wish with no recourse. Not being able to find anyone to be a cop without it, tell all we need to know about who is trying to have a badge and gun to play God.
Here's a concept.....don't break the laws you are supposed to enforce and don't make law on the side of the road. We are held accountable....you should be too. It's only fair... if it is fair for both sides.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
I did not read all the responses, and after the first page, I really don't feel like going throug the rest of them.
Massad says it quite eloquently, so I will post his statement -
I know that all areas around the country are going to be different. But if you think that we are only out to arrest people, I'm sorry, but you are simply ignorant. Honestly, the VAST majority of us (law enforcement) are terrified of making even minor mistakes, because, in some areas of the country, even the smallest mistake we make can lead us to crippling civil lawsuits, which could lead to poverty and us putting our family out of their home, loss of our job, or even criminal penalties. The LAST thing we want to do is make a false arrest, or a decision that is not made with the full and complete story of what happened, with full intent on doing what is right by the justice system, and by God.
When someone fails to tell us the full and complete facts of the case, we are left with ONLY whatever is leftover. If the innocent person decides to not say anything at all to police, than all that is left over may be the guilty person, weaving a bunch of lies that paints the innocent person in a bad light.....what would the citizens have us do? Trust our "gut" and go AGAINST the facts presented in the case? At risk of possibly loosing our entire livelihood or facing criminal penalties?
Some may not understand. When I make a critical decision in my job as a Deputy, it is not for what I think would look best on a monthly activity log, or in any form of statistics, or to be more efficient for my boss. This decision could be as small as whether or not to turn on my emergency overhead lights to pull someone over. I make my decisions based on what is right, and what I must do. If I make my decisions wrong, even the smallest decisions I HAVE to make literally EVERY day, than my five year old girl may end up without Christmas presents, without food on the table, or without a home. I make my decisions not just for myself, but for my family. **** the Department, I make my decisions based on what I know, and what is right, based on the facts that I know.
If we don't have the basic facts of any given case, then expecting us to make the "right" decision, is simply ignorant. We as police officers are humans, just like all of those reading this. We can't read minds, we can't decipher facts out of thin air, and we can't violate statutes. In an encounter like the one described by the op, give us a an honest statement of the facts. We will do what needs to be done at that time. And even if the officer acts unrighteously, which is uncommon.....then if you acted in a criminal manner, it will be sorted out in court. If you acted in a righteous manner, it will also be sorted out in court.
If you decide to hide facts from us, we will only be left with what is left over, and so be it. In this day and age, we in law enforcement can't afford work in the gray area. We have to remain black and white, or otherwise, face the risk of forsaking our family or ourselves.
Massad says it quite eloquently, so I will post his statement -
I know that all areas around the country are going to be different. But if you think that we are only out to arrest people, I'm sorry, but you are simply ignorant. Honestly, the VAST majority of us (law enforcement) are terrified of making even minor mistakes, because, in some areas of the country, even the smallest mistake we make can lead us to crippling civil lawsuits, which could lead to poverty and us putting our family out of their home, loss of our job, or even criminal penalties. The LAST thing we want to do is make a false arrest, or a decision that is not made with the full and complete story of what happened, with full intent on doing what is right by the justice system, and by God.
When someone fails to tell us the full and complete facts of the case, we are left with ONLY whatever is leftover. If the innocent person decides to not say anything at all to police, than all that is left over may be the guilty person, weaving a bunch of lies that paints the innocent person in a bad light.....what would the citizens have us do? Trust our "gut" and go AGAINST the facts presented in the case? At risk of possibly loosing our entire livelihood or facing criminal penalties?
Some may not understand. When I make a critical decision in my job as a Deputy, it is not for what I think would look best on a monthly activity log, or in any form of statistics, or to be more efficient for my boss. This decision could be as small as whether or not to turn on my emergency overhead lights to pull someone over. I make my decisions based on what is right, and what I must do. If I make my decisions wrong, even the smallest decisions I HAVE to make literally EVERY day, than my five year old girl may end up without Christmas presents, without food on the table, or without a home. I make my decisions not just for myself, but for my family. **** the Department, I make my decisions based on what I know, and what is right, based on the facts that I know.
If we don't have the basic facts of any given case, then expecting us to make the "right" decision, is simply ignorant. We as police officers are humans, just like all of those reading this. We can't read minds, we can't decipher facts out of thin air, and we can't violate statutes. In an encounter like the one described by the op, give us a an honest statement of the facts. We will do what needs to be done at that time. And even if the officer acts unrighteously, which is uncommon.....then if you acted in a criminal manner, it will be sorted out in court. If you acted in a righteous manner, it will also be sorted out in court.
If you decide to hide facts from us, we will only be left with what is left over, and so be it. In this day and age, we in law enforcement can't afford work in the gray area. We have to remain black and white, or otherwise, face the risk of forsaking our family or ourselves.
And I'll say, the same thing from the other side. If God forbid I found myself in the above situation, and started volunteering information that the Constitution says I don't have to do, my family could end up with no food on the table. Don't try to tell me that never happens.
No, in that case I am, and would advise anyone else, to fully excercise your constitutional rights, hire the best lawyer you can, and let them handle the talking since that is what they are trained to do.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Qualified immunity has nothing to do with criminal penalties or laws, it is solely a protection against civil liability, and is ONLY applicable when an officer acts in a manner that is NOT in violation of clearly established law or civil rights, and is acting within their scope of duties, and acting in good faith. Those officers that obviously violate clearly established laws and/or are not acting in good faith are (and should be) fully liable to criminal penalties and/or civil lawsuits.
An example, would be if I attempted a traffic stop on a motorcycle with a passenger, going 105 mph in a 70 mph zone. After I initiate my emergency lights to initiate the stop, the driver of the motorcycle accelerates to a speed of 135+ mph, endangering everyone else around, and a pursuit begins. During the pursuit, the driver of the motorcycle ends up crashing. In the crash, the passenger of the motorcycle is killed. Without qualified immunity, I could, as an individual that was doing my lawful job with good faith intentions, be successfully sued by the family of the motorcycle PASSENGER, even though the passenger was killed at the actions of the driver, because I had no lawful right to stop the passenger, only the driver, as the passenger had broken no laws, even though the passenger had no control over the driver's actions. Does that seem correct to you? Because that and more, is what reality would be like for law enforcement officers without qualified immunity.
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codyadams
Well-Known Member
What I am saying is, if you in fact acted in accordance with the law, and you state the facts, I know in my state, and based on every officer I have ever spoken with around the country, you will have nothing to worry about. If you withhold simple and important facts that affect my decisions, than I will be left with whatever may be left over. That could go either way for someone, unfortunately I can't decipher facts out of thin air, though I truly and honestly wish I could.....it would make my job infinitely easier. I will however be the first one to say, if you screwed up, and did not act in accordance with the law, (sometimes s*** happens) then don't say anything more than you must, and get an attorney. Or if you are unsure if your actions were legal or not, then again, get an attorney. But we (law enforcement) as a whole, are NOT out to get you. We are there to do what is right. I can make a lot more money doing something else. I choose to do this.
Bottom line, make your decision how you want. If you think the right choice is to conceal the facts from the police, then conceal the facts. If you think the right choice is to be truthful, then be truthful. None of us on this earth are the ultimate judge. Make your choices based on what you think is right.
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FEENIX
Well-Known Member
@Deputy819
@codyadams
Please know that you have my full support. Be safe out there and come to your family and loved ones.
Thank you for your service, and God bless.
Ed
@codyadams
Please know that you have my full support. Be safe out there and come to your family and loved ones.
Thank you for your service, and God bless.
Ed
Muddyboots
Well-Known Member
First, you own a firearm and you had to use it to defend and protect yourself, family, friends from harm.
KNOW the laws of self defense in your state and even states that are reciprocal to your CCW. You can't fly blind in serious life threatening scenarios. Internet forums are not the source of legal advice.
There are really good "Aftermath" guidance documents and videos out there that everyone should educate themselves for this potential tragic event. Everyone will be emotionally affected, being prepared will help manage the emotions during any crisis.
Law enforcement HAS a job to do in these circumstances and you HAVE a job to do to protect your rights and evidence of the incident. Preserve your rights with simple statement of cooperation with consultation with your attorney.
Never interfere with their job, it's tough enough. Never tamper with the scene.
There are really good "Aftermath" guidance documents and videos out there that everyone should educate themselves for this potential tragic event.
Be prepared, have a plan to respond with enough information to help guide the LEO but yet still protects your rights. Establish a relationship with an attorney that "specializes" in self defense. Your friend that is a real estate attorney not so much.
This scenario is no different than any other emergency that you educate yourself and family so you can respond to safely. Knowledge is your best defense in any circumstance or scenario.
KNOW the laws of self defense in your state and even states that are reciprocal to your CCW. You can't fly blind in serious life threatening scenarios. Internet forums are not the source of legal advice.
There are really good "Aftermath" guidance documents and videos out there that everyone should educate themselves for this potential tragic event. Everyone will be emotionally affected, being prepared will help manage the emotions during any crisis.
Law enforcement HAS a job to do in these circumstances and you HAVE a job to do to protect your rights and evidence of the incident. Preserve your rights with simple statement of cooperation with consultation with your attorney.
Never interfere with their job, it's tough enough. Never tamper with the scene.
There are really good "Aftermath" guidance documents and videos out there that everyone should educate themselves for this potential tragic event.
Be prepared, have a plan to respond with enough information to help guide the LEO but yet still protects your rights. Establish a relationship with an attorney that "specializes" in self defense. Your friend that is a real estate attorney not so much.
This scenario is no different than any other emergency that you educate yourself and family so you can respond to safely. Knowledge is your best defense in any circumstance or scenario.
