Short barrel 1000 yard elk cartridge

[Send it 284]

Some people are stuck on 338. Great caliber, but the heavy 30's are out classing it in bullet design efficiency, so it's becoming a comparison much like 308 vs 6.5Creedmoor. Yes, more initial energy, but fired at the same velocity the heavy 30's will eventually overcome the difference. I'd say 300 PRC with a 1:8 twist

^^^Yep and you can go clear up to a 245 with a bc of .807 where as a 338 Berger 250 is .67
With a short barrel it'll be tough to drive the real heavy bullets fast enough to gain anything from their higher bc

 

[Ernie]

At some point it's not a matter of efficiency, it is physics or chemistry,,, you just can't burn enough powder to push the bullet fast enough. What do you think the muzzle flash is from? Unburnt powder. You may as well use a 308 win or 7mm 08, they are designed for short barrels and use 168 gr bullets in the 308. and whatever in 7mm mag (154?). You are going to have to calculate for drop. You SAS won't have a flat laser. They will kill elk if you place the bullet properly. You need the right tool for the job. And actually, this may actually be the job for the 6.5 Creedmoor! Finally, something useful the Creedmoor can handle!. I think a 350 Rem mag is designed for short barrels if you want a bigger diameter bullet.

Personally, I think a 24" barrel for a 300 win mag is marginal. I built mine with a 26" barrel. Shorter than 24" may as well go to a 30/06 and dare I say a 308 because you can use a shorter lighter action.
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At the time of its introduction the .350 Remington had a short, fat case, similar to the current crop of short magnums except that the .350 carries a belt. Its closest competitor, the .35 Whelen was still just a wildcat from a necked-up .30-06, so the .350 Rem was the most powerful .35 caliber around, and in a short cartridge that allowed the use in compact quick-handling rifles.[3] However, gun writers and shooters of the time were not yet enamored of the short-fat concept as they are today, and they preferred the older longer .35 Whelen based on the .30-06 cartridge, even though it had, at best, similar performance in short barrels.[4] Today the .350 Rem has had some improvement in acceptance, due to the shorter cartridge being able to fit in a .308 length action.[5]

Though the cartridge has great merit, it has never attained tremendous popularity. This is due in no small part to the rather vicious recoil produced when firing the cartridge from the lightweight Model 600 it was initially chambered in. The Model 673 and Model 7 so chambered are a full pound heavier at 7.5 lbs, and do better to mitigate recoil. Still, with the .30-06 Springfield being toward the upper end of what many shooters find tolerable in a 7-8 pound sporting rifle.

There is so much miss information in this post, even though I believe the gentleman writing it is sincere.
The cartridges you mentioned, are not gonna work well for killing elk out to 1000 yards.

Light weight mountain rigs and big cartridges and bullets, don't have to be painful...Solution: A quality solid bottomed brake!

The 308 Winchester, 7mm-08, and 6.5 Creedmoor suck for 1k elk in short barrels!

Both 35 caliber cartridges you mentioned, will not work for 1K elk in short barrels.

We are not looking for efficiency, we are looking for a level of performance with specific bullets weights.

And yes, you can shoot the cartridges with 18-20 inch barrels, that are at the 300 Winchester Magnum and larger capacity, at distances out to 1000 yards, with great accuracy.

In 18" barrels:
6.5 Creedmoor has a higher MV than a 6.5 TCU.
6.5-284 has a faster MV than a 6.5 Creedmoor
A 6.5-06 has a faster MV than the 6.5-284.
The 6.5 PRC has a faster MV than the 6.5-06.
the 26 Nosler has a faster MV than the the 6.5 SAUM/WSM or PRC.
You can do the same thing with 7mm, or 30 caliber, and each of these parent cases, the results will be the same (Bigger capacity equals faster MV's)
If, you have more powder capacity, your muzzle velocity is going to be higher.
Even the 28 Nosler will outrun the 7mm Dakota in a 18" barrel.
This is not theory.
I have and shoot these cartridges in short barrels.

 

[Ernie]

For people who say "if you want a short barrel better use 308 or something like that" ,I will say in the same lenght barrel 3006 will always have more energy than 308 and 300 mag will always have more energy than 3006.

TRUTH!

 

[Dean2]

Well, didn't read them all, but if you want max crank at long range, take a look at the 338-378 Weatherby with a shorter freebore than Weatherby typically uses, just make sure that is noted on the barrel. Run it through the calculator with a 20" barrel and I think you will be surprised at the performance levels.

 

[rbTanzan]

My 30 nosler loaded with a 230 at .020 off will just fit in that. Imo-its one of the most under-rated of the big 30s.

Here's a pic of a 215 at .020 off. Cow elk shot through the shoulders at 180.

View attachment 248698

Disclaimer: I don't like copper-core separation (see pic in quotation). So . . .

Many have suggested 338s. You can't go wrong with that.
Several would work, even the old Win Mag if long bullets were seated out with the appropriate throat and twist. But since you are building from scratch, the Lapua and Norma in 338 come to mind. You might look at a 262gn Hammer Hunter, 1.803" long, G7 .325, at about 2800-2950fps. (the Hammer Hunter has low engraving pressure and typically gets higher velocities.) It would work, as would so many others. The 285gn HH is 2" and honest G7 of .356, requiring 9" twist for full BC efficiency. The fly in the ointment is accuracy. You will need to build the rifle before you can finally determine which bullet really likes the set up. No elk will stand in its way. For ease of brass: 338 Lapua, and then the 262gnHH, or bullet of your choice.

 

[rbTanzan]

If you're already thinking 338 norma and I love mine btw. Why not go with a 375 ruger? The cartridge was designed for use in shorter barrels comparatively speaking.

Definately worth considering. 375 Ruger. There are some wonderful specialty bullets these days. E.g., Hammer offers a 248gn, .229G7, that should reach 3000fps in your short barrel with its low engraving pressure. 277gn and 329gn available, too. You would be giving up some velocity for the extra diameter. I go back and forth on that and have done both, sometimes choosing velocity, sometimes diameter.

Up close in timber the 375 Ruger would shine. Across a canyon would depend on inherent accuracy of the specific rifle, as it always does.

 

[yorke-1]

You probably won't get 2800+ from a 20 inch barrel with a 250 I'm guessing 2600 but either way I completely agree with the set up as you mentioned. A little bit less recoil with 250 vs the 300, it'll be a short barrel hammer.
Another question I know it's a pistol but curious and getting in getting a snipetac myself in a rifle, do you know who chambers that the US?

It's pretty easy to hit 2950+fps with a 250gr bullet in a 26" 338 Lapua using a few different powders and published load data, you'll easily go over 2950 fps with some more aggressive loads. You'll drop about 30 fps/inch from there, making 2800 pretty doable.

For the SnipeTac, it's easiest to just have a reamer made. Mine is technically a tight necked 338 BigBaer, slightly different than the SnipeTac in most dimensions but with the same case capacity.

 

[Wild_Bill]

When you shorten a barrel you are better using a projectile with a larger bore. Using a large 30 cal in an 18" barrel won't do you any favours.
The 338 Lapua is a good choice however look at necking the Lapua to 375 the bore diameter will allow the use of a faster powder that will burn better in the short barrel.

 

[Ernie]

When you shorten a barrel you are better using a projectile with a larger bore. Using a large 30 cal in an 18" barrel won't do you any favours.
The 338 Lapua is a good choice however look at necking the Lapua to 375 the bore diameter will allow the use of a faster powder that will burn better in the short barrel.

You don't use faster powders in 18 inch barrels for large case capacities.
I use reloader 33 and Retumbo for my 7mm Dakota (175's and 180 grain bullets 2900 fps MV) and 300 RUM (Retumbo/230 grain bullets=2825 fps {20" barrel})
I use H-1000 with WSM's, SAUM's, and 6.5 PRC's, 7mm LRM with 18" barrels. I use H-4831sc for my 284 Winchester specialty pistols.
I use Reloader 33 in my 18" 26 Nosler using a 147 grain ELD-M with a MV of 2987 fps

 

[seidersjoden]

It's pretty easy to hit 2950+fps with a 250gr bullet in a 26" 338 Lapua using a few different powders and published load data, you'll easily go over 2950 fps with some more aggressive loads. You'll drop about 30 fps/inch from there, making 2800 pretty doable.

For the SnipeTac, it's easiest to just have a reamer made. Mine is technically a tight necked 338 BigBaer, slightly different than the SnipeTac in most dimensions but with the same case

It's pretty easy to hit 2950+fps with a 250gr bullet in a 26" 338 Lapua using a few different powders and published load data, you'll easily go over 2950 fps with some more aggressive loads. You'll drop about 30 fps/inch from there, making 2800 pretty doable.

For the SnipeTac, it's easiest to just have a reamer made. Mine is technically a tight necked 338 BigBaer, slightly different than the SnipeTac in most dimensions but with the same case capacity.

Do you or anyone on this forum know if a sniperac cartridge would work in a long action without going to an extra large action? For example would it work in my .338 TI lone Peak arms action? Single feed of course since the round would be way too long to fit in the mag. http://www.lonepeakarms.com/razor-338-ti

 

[esorensen]

I found this post, and I have responded to him, with some actual muzzle velocity's, from three different specialty pistols.

Thanks Ernie. You guys have had the corner on short barrels and whacking stuff way out there long before short barrels became vogue...you experience in this arena is invaluable. Not trying to blow sunshine.

 

[Ernie]

Thank you sir.

 

[Wild_Bill]

You don't use faster powders in 18 inch barrels for large case capacities.
I use reloader 33 and Retumbo for my 7mm Dakota (175's and 180 grain bullets 2900 fps MV) and 300 RUM (Retumbo/230 grain bullets=2825 fps {20" barrel})
I use H-1000 with WSM's, SAUM's, and 6.5 PRC's, 7mm LRM with 18" barrels. I use H-4831sc for my 284 Winchester specialty pistols.
I use Reloader 33 in my 18" 26 Nosler using a 147 grain ELD-M with a MV of 2987 fps

Ernie I said using a larger diameter projectile eg 375 on a 338 lapua case you can use a faster powder.The faster powder will help with a more efficient burn and have less muzzle blast.
if loading a 338 Lapua in a 18" or 30" barrel the same powder will likley give the best performance. Yes I agree and have test data to confirm it

 

[Wild_Bill]

Do you or anyone on this forum know if a sniperac cartridge would work in a long action without going to an extra large action? For example would it work in my .338 TI lone Peak arms action? Single feed of course since the round would be way too long to fit in the mag. http://www.lonepeakarms.com/razor-338-ti

No a snipe tac requires a much larger action