What cartridge will be a 1,000 yard elk/deer rifle in a 20" barrel?

[jessej]

as B n G said. RUM.

IMO, Barrel life is not a consideration in this type of hunting tool.
If you stand on it, even a 210 swift scirocco in the 338 RUM will get you to a grand with a 20" barrel. I'm interested in your decision and results.


@bigngreen Always glad to see you around.

 

[HandgunHTR]

338 MEGA with 250 Berger loaded to 3.3" coal at 2800 feet will be your huckleberry!
Far less recoil and better barrel life and you wont start a brush fire doing it!
At around 4000" elevation, you have 1875' velocity and 1952 ft/lbs at 1000 yards.

I read through the thread and was going to comment the same thing.

Rich, can you PM me a list of smiths that have the 338 Mega reamer? Or point me in a good direction? Can I rent it? I have enjoyed using Preferred Barrel Blank barrels in the past and would like for them to chamber if possible.

Preferred does not have the reamer, but they are building one for me as I agreed to pay the extra $$ for the rental, plus a little bit for their time to coordinate it. I am having them build me a 21.5" barrel.

 

[jsmitt6]

@HandgunHTR How long ago did you place the order for your barrel? I wonder if I can piggy-back off of your rental, have PBB chamber a barrel while they have the reamer, with splitting payment for the rental with you. Not sure if that is something that is acceptable or not. Probably would have to have that ok'ed by yourself, PBB, and Rich. Worst case scenario, I will just pay the rental when it is time to chamber the barrel.

 

[jsmitt6]

as B n G said. RUM.

IMO, Barrel life is not a consideration in this type of hunting tool.
If you stand on it, even a 210 swift scirocco in the 338 RUM will get you to a grand with a 20" barrel. I'm interested in your decision and results.


@bigngreen Always glad to see you around.

Correct, the barrel life for this rifle is not something that I am concerned in the slightest about. This will be a purpose driven rifle with enough trigger time to get comfortable. Since I shoot milder rounds for practice with the same stock, scope, etc, I can practice with other rifles.

 

[7.62 Gunner]

I didn't post this to get questions about the ethics of shooting elk at 1,000 yards. Wrong forum for that discussion. I have and will continue to shoot at game as far as I deem is okay, I don't need anyone else's opinion on the matter.

My question is a simple one, maybe it was lost in my explanation: does a cartridge exist that fits in a Tikka .540" BF, with a 20" or so barrel that will retain enough velocity to expand at 1,000 yards?

I've run numbers on dozens of cartridges, with the speed loss of going down to a 20" barrel, it seems like I am looking for a cartridge that doesn't exist, without major modifications to the chamber and throat. Am I correct in that assumption?

Hey now easy on the "Micro Agressions" there brother, it's 2023 and we suppress testosterone in this woke snowflake society

It might be kinda boring since you already have a 30 Nos, but I'd do the Redsnake 3.6" bottom metal and get a 20" barrel in the same chambering throated for 225 eldms.
I've been a Berger fan boy for awhile, but I'm really seriously impressed with the 225 on elk.
That bullet flat stones them in their tracks, and expands much more reliably at lower impact velocities.
Even with a MV of 2650 you'll be over 1800 fps at 1k with 1600 ft lbs at 7000'

 

[jsmitt6]

Hey now easy on the "Micro Agressions" there brother, it's 2023 and we suppress testosterone in this woke snowflake society

It might be kinda boring since you already have a 30 Nos, but I'd do the Redsnake 3.6" bottom metal and get a 20" barrel in the same chambering throated for 225 eldms.
I've been a Berger fan boy for awhile, but I'm really seriously impressed with the 225 on elk.
That bullet flat stones them in their tracks, and expands much more reliably at lower impact velocities.
Even with a MV of 2650 you'll be over 1800 fps at 1k with 1600 ft lbs at 7000'

I know, I need to check myself sometimes.

I've seriously thought about your suggestion, it makes sense. However it **** near guarantees that I need to rebarrel my 26" 30 nosler since I'll never Grab it over the shorty (if the shorty is as accurate). Such a tough situation to be in, I know lol.

 

[codyadams]

I know, I need to check myself sometimes.

I've seriously thought about your suggestion, it makes sense. However it **** near guarantees that I need to rebarrel my 26" 30 nosler since I'll never Grab it over the shorty (if the shorty is as accurate). Such a tough situation to be in, I know lol.

Sounds like you should have your 26" cut, crowned and threaded @20" and call it a day. Unless it's a carbon that can't be cut down, then if it's a custom action, just have a .200"-.220"ish freebore 30 nosler prefit made for it.

On the other hand, I will never detour an American from getting another rifle. On a tikka action, it makes it a little harder for your goals. Rich's mega will get about everything possible from that action, and would be about the minimum I would consider for a dedicated 1000+ elk rifle.

However, my wife's rifle is a 20" 7 max, just an improved saum. It's best node in a 650 yard ladder was the 170 PVA Cayugas at 2835, a fair margin under max. 1000 yards at my home elevation of 6,300 ft, gives 1925 fps and 1400 ft-lbs @ impact. The areas we hunt elk at 7500-10,000 ft elevation, a lot more, I wouldn't hesitate to take an elk at 1000 in the right conditions. And I didn't, 2021 season I used it to dump a big cow at 1035.

I built this rifle for my wife with some compromises, I wanted recoil of the 9.5 lb rifle to be soft while supressed, so that kind of limited me to 7mm. As you know, the 20" supressed rifle I built for myself was a 30 nosler, I dont really mind some recoil. A 208 lrht @2935 is an easy 1000+ elk rifle, especially at higher elevation.

Good luck with your decision, just make sure and update us what you do!

 

[buzby]

Sounds like you should have your 26" cut, crowned and threaded @20" and call it a day. Unless it's a carbon that can't be cut down, then if it's a custom action, just have a .200"-.220"ish freebore 30 nosler prefit made for it.

This seems like correct answer to me.

 

[JPatzig]

I would avoid any mono bullet at those ranges.

Just curious, why avoid mono at longer ranges?

 

[jsmitt6]

Sounds like you should have your 26" cut, crowned and threaded @20" and call it a day. Unless it's a carbon that can't be cut down, then if it's a custom action, just have a .200"-.220"ish freebore 30 nosler prefit made for it.

On the other hand, I will never detour an American from getting another rifle. On a tikka action, it makes it a little harder for your goals. Rich's mega will get about everything possible from that action, and would be about the minimum I would consider for a dedicated 1000+ elk rifle.

However, my wife's rifle is a 20" 7 max, just an improved saum. It's best node in a 650 yard ladder was the 170 PVA Cayugas at 2835, a fair margin under max. 1000 yards at my home elevation of 6,300 ft, gives 1925 fps and 1400 ft-lbs @ impact. The areas we hunt elk at 7500-10,000 ft elevation, a lot more, I wouldn't hesitate to take an elk at 1000 in the right conditions. And I didn't, 2021 season I used it to dump a big cow at 1035.

I built this rifle for my wife with some compromises, I wanted recoil of the 9.5 lb rifle to be soft while supressed, so that kind of limited me to 7mm. As you know, the 20" supressed rifle I built for myself was a 30 nosler, I dont really mind some recoil. A 208 lrht @2935 is an easy 1000+ elk rifle, especially at higher elevation.

Good luck with your decision, just make sure and update us what you do!

If I didn't have a carbon barrel on 26" nosler, I would 100% be cutting it down. I think I may even try to sell that barrel and do a 20". Or keep it and do a 338 mega. I loaned the 30 nosler out 3x last year and everyone who borrowed it had nothing but good things to say. Might keep it for a loaner or backup rifle. Who knows!

 

[7.62 Gunner]

I know, I need to check myself sometimes.

I've seriously thought about your suggestion, it makes sense. However it **** near guarantees that I need to rebarrel my 26" 30 nosler since I'll never Grab it over the shorty (if the shorty is as accurate). Such a tough situation to be in, I know lol.

I hear you, I had a great shooting 30 Nos with a 24" barrel that I didn't want to get rid of. After a season with a can on the end though it was an easy choice to sell it off, and build a 19" 300 NMI specifically for what you're doing.
I'm just getting it put together but results have been fantastic so far.

Just curious, why avoid mono at longer ranges?

They don't expand well or create good wound channels at lower impact velocities

 

[mdmiller]

So Doctor Miller, I have just a few questions, " when you load for that 338WSM, with the 21 inch barrel, do you use powder with a faster burn rate then you would if the rifle had a 24 inch barrel?? ?" In order to get the desired velocity, "do you have to tolerate a much higher chamber pressure?" "Is it necessary to seat the bullet well off the lands so as not to incur a high pressure spike? " If the rifle is custom, "did you select a faster rate of twist due to the shorter length of the barrel? " I use IMR 4350 In my 20 inch 30-06 but I am trading somewhat less velocity ( only 2600/2650 fps) for a softer recoil. I agree with the suggestion previously given to me about using a powder with a faster burn rate, but I have not tried that yet.

Powder was on the slower side of things. RL-17, H1000 and StaBall 6.5. All of them done a fine job! I have not got velocity yet because of no pressure yet to judge from. Right now OAL is mag length ( Savage model 16 ) 3.00 or slightly under. Barrel is 1-9 for shooting 225 grain bullets. The 21" barrel was for a can later. It now wears a Fat Bastard T3 on it, it tamed the beast!! 225gr Maker TREX shot 1/4 moa w/RL-17. Shorter barrels is always a give on velocity, putting a can will also change things. Gun, Savage 16, built by V A Silent Arsenal.
They build some mean big boy calibers!!
Shooting 223 HH right now with wicked moa, Steve helped me out on this one!!
Mark

 

[bigngreen]

Just curious, why avoid mono at longer ranges?

Higher risk of not opening or opening small then tumbling. It's amazing how fast they can go from excellent function to drill bits, you can over come it with accuracy which is what I would do and still be fine but your narrowing up your shot placement window again, I use bot mono and cup and core equally to leverage the best bullets at the best impact velocity.

 

[codyadams]

Higher risk of not opening or opening small then tumbling. It's amazing how fast they can go from excellent function to drill bits, you can over come it with accuracy which is what I would do and still be fine but your narrowing up your shot placement window again, I use bot mono and cup and core equally to leverage the best bullets at the best impact velocity.

The good news, is the mono bullets are getting to have more options, and they are starting to get better at low velocity impacts. This, in conjunction with figuring out better bc's, thus giving higher impact velocities, will make them more all around functional. I will soon be testing out a mono that is predicted to give nearly 2200 fps and almost 2000 ft-lbs of impact energy at 1000 yards, from my 20" 30 nosler. New technology may be slowly changing the game...but that's for another write up!