Short barrel 1000 yard elk cartridge

[A guy named Bob]

Go big or go home, 1000 yards is a long ways with many variables.

I was Elk hunting in 7 devils Idaho about 15 years ago. There was a hunting party of old timers not far from us. Our hunting group spent some time around their campfire listening to what they had to say about Elk hunting in the area, they had been doing it for over 50 years. I will never forget what they had to say, there is NO substitute for experience. They all agreed and told us, " you cant have a big enough gun when it comes to long range bull elk, they're tougher than you think" They had 338-378 Weatherby magnums. They also told us to keep shooting until that Bull is down, never assume they will just fall over.
Anyway, thats my advice, opinion, best of luck.

 

[Ernie]

It seems to me you ought to get a hold of the specialty pistol guys and ask what they've found to be the best LR system. Look for Ernie bishop.

I found this post, and I have responded to him, with some actual muzzle velocity's, from three different specialty pistols.

 

[Chas1]

300gr Berger out of a 338 Allen Xpress is a hammer at 3100 foot pounds of muzzle energy @ 1000yds.

 

[Ernie]

short Barrel = NO Energy @ 1000yds I really have a hard time believing these velocity's out of a 20" tube

The three that I listed, our actual muzzle velocity. Number of guys have shot my 7mm Dakota XP past a mile and even beyond 2000 yards this past summer

 

[naja302]

Ya but that 250g badlands with a BC of .8 (.410 G7) @ 2800 FPS seems totally doable from a 338 Lapua/Norma and that's a theoretical 2200 foot/lbs of energy and 1996 FPS at 1000 yards @ 8000 ft elevation.

that seems like the way to go to me...bucks the wind really well too.

I'm sold

 

[Ernie]

View attachment 248896
7mm Dakota drops View attachment 248896View attachment 248896

 

[Bravo 4]

Shooting targets at 1000 yards plus is one thing killing Elk at 1000 yards is another a lot can happen at that range cross winds at different directions up drafts down drafts any movement by your target and the list goes on. Is it really worth risking a inhuman kill just to say you did it with the bare minimum? I know this is long range hunting but personally it think it's harder to get within 2-250 yards to make a clean kill but that's just my opinion

I agree it is harder to get within 200 yards, maybe that's why I prepare to shoot them at 1000+. What I do is make myself ready for any shot I deem appropriate. If I spend thousands of dollars, drive thousands of miles, after waiting sometimes years (not to mention beating myself up months before and during a hunt) I plan on killing what I am there hunting. It is a mission to me and I prepare as such. A mission I rather enjoy preparing for and executing. If I take a shot at long range, it's because I'm more prepared to make that shot then the average hunter is at 200. I can guarantee you I've shot more long range this month than most will all year, let alone
I'm just gonna start ignoring everyone that comes on a long range hunting site and preaches against hunting long range. That is the definition of being a Troll.
Congratulations! You made the list...

As for using the term "average hunter"; maybe I shouldn't using it so loosely, gets me in trouble with the natives.
Or am I even supposed to use the word native anymore?

 

[JC in Calif]

I like guns and need another one like I need a hole in the head but I have this extra XLR element magnesium chassis and I'm thinking about building a short barreled gun.

I know this has been discussed but I'll ask anyway.

I understand that short barrels castrate big cartridges and I don't care. I don't care about muzzle flash or unburned powder or efficiency etc.

if you think an 18" 338 Lapua is completely ridiculous and should never be done theplease don't respond to this thread (I felt this way a year ago)

now to the question: I want to build a strong magnum long action gun with a short 18"...or maybe 20" barrel. WHAT IS THE BEST CARTRIDGE FOR KILLING ELK to 1000 yards.

elk are tough critters and I don't subscribe to the 7mmRM being sufficient to kill elk with at 1000 with any barrel length (and yes I know it's been done effectively thousands of times)...but I'm looking for something that hits harder than that.

my initial thought is to just do a 338 Lapua (I'm already setup to load that one)...then I started thinking well in that case the 338 Norma is probably a better choice...then my brain went to the 300 Norma with 230 or 245's....

is a 300 Norma not actually faster than a 300 WM if you cut the barrel down that much????

I know we are sacrificing some velocity with a short barrel which is why I went to heavier bullets automatically...but maybe I'm wrong there

also this is not going to be an ELR gun...it's only for 1000 and less so I don't care if we take an entry level ELR cartridge and make it not good enough for ELR.

28 Nosler-375 CT...go

What is the reason for the short barrel?

 

[seidersjoden]

I like guns and need another one like I need a hole in the head but I have this extra XLR element magnesium chassis and I'm thinking about building a short barreled gun.

I know this has been discussed but I'll ask anyway.

I understand that short barrels castrate big cartridges and I don't care. I don't care about muzzle flash or unburned powder or efficiency etc.

if you think an 18" 338 Lapua is completely ridiculous and should never be done theplease don't respond to this thread (I felt this way a year ago)

now to the question: I want to build a strong magnum long action gun with a short 18"...or maybe 20" barrel. WHAT IS THE BEST CARTRIDGE FOR KILLING ELK to 1000 yards.

elk are tough critters and I don't subscribe to the 7mmRM being sufficient to kill elk with at 1000 with any barrel length (and yes I know it's been done effectively thousands of times)...but I'm looking for something that hits harder than that.

my initial thought is to just do a 338 Lapua (I'm already setup to load that one)...then I started thinking well in that case the 338 Norma is probably a better choice...then my brain went to the 300 Norma with 230 or 245's....

is a 300 Norma not actually faster than a 300 WM if you cut the barrel down that much????

I know we are sacrificing some velocity with a short barrel which is why I went to heavier bullets automatically...but maybe I'm wrong there

also this is not going to be an ELR gun...it's only for 1000 and less so I don't care if we take an entry level ELR cartridge and make it not good enough for ELR.

28 Nosler-375 CT...go

I'm a big fan of short barrels

Three years ago I took my standard 338 Lapua and cut the MTU contour barrel to 20 inches, that along with the XLR folding stock it was pretty **** handy for backpack hunting and getting in and out of vehicles. It did decreasing MV from 2800 with a 27 inch barrel to 2455 with a 24 inch barrel shooting 300g OTMs.

i'll tell you what my first trip to the range to test for different nodes With that short staffed barrel was the easiest node finding experience.

Currently I have a 338 Lapua ackkey improved with a 40° angle shoulder, 24 inch barrel shooting a 300g OTM at 2911 ft./s.

Picture with the bear is the standard 27" Lapua then the gun on the table is after I cut it down to 20".
Picture with the deer is the 24 inch barrel Ackley improved that I have now. The deer was shot at 1220 yards

I have several dream ideas for a short barrel gun like you. I'm thinking 338 snipetac with a fast twist barrel shooting solid copper's. Maybe not even 300 grain but something lighter like a 250 grain which is what Im messing around with now in my Ackley improved (252g cutting edge coppers going 3080, haven't found a node yet, releasing article soon:

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Reason being is unless you're shooting out past 600 yards it's hard to spot your own shots with that recoil, and in all honesty when I shot that deer 1220 yards this year the first shot I missed right in front of his chest because I didn't call enough wind and even at 1200 yards with this Ackley improved shooting 300g bullets I barely got back on target in time to see the impact; if it was less than 900 yards I probably wouldn't have got on target fast enough and wouldn't have seen where I hit, and wouldn't have been able to make a follow up shot. Ive thought about a 375 CT but the problem is when you shoot those heavy 350 400 grain bullets spotting your own shots becomes difficult. I think it's important in a hunting situation to have a caliber that you can manage to spot any misses or less than desirable hits on an animal so you can follow up smartly. Please no comments on how this is unethical because what you don't hear on Long Range Forum's, is all the missed shots which WILL happen when you're in the game of longrange hunting unfortunately. If you train and practice then you can buy down the probability of missing but the factor will always be there.

 

[cajun]

I approach it this way.

Assuming 5000 feet elevation or higher since we're talking elk.

Now what's the most efficient bullet to get there and do work. I'd pick a 230 berger. At 2750 fps you get to 1000 yards with 1850 retained velocity which is your minimum threshold.

What cartridge will get you there. I'd like to say 30 sherman max, 300wm or 30 nosler. I'm a huge fan of the 30 nosler but feel the right powder combo in a short mag variant would do the job. Really need to play around in QL.

Also, I've been researching this quite a bit and it seems 20 inches is the sweet spot. It's not much of a drop off from 22 inches but seems to really outpace an 18.

This right here. Pick your bullet. Find out what muzzle velo you need to the desired results. Find a caliber that will get you there. I would assume 25-30 fps velocity loss per inch of barrel.

 

[skookum]

You might do a little search over at Rokslide but I know Ryan Avery was working on a similar project with the guy from Unkown Munitions and I believe they were running a 30 Nosler with 215s at 2900 using N570 out of a 20 or 22 inch barrel. Might be something to consider.

 

[naja302]

I want short (and light-which I didn't specify initially) because I'm not going to go hunt with one of my 12-15lb 26"+ guns...at least not on a hunt that requires mountain hiking.

a reasonable weighted 300 or 28 Nosler could do great things at 1000 yards with normal length barrels and be plenty light weight....but it seems like a folding stocked 20" 330 Lapua would be fun

certainly not my "one gun for everything"

but sure sounds fun!

 

[P7M13]

416 Choda

 

[Ernie]

1868 fps impact velocity at 1K, 4500 feet elevation. 175 grain ELDX/7mm Dakota with a 18" barrel.