Short barrel 1000 yard elk cartridge

[Ernie]

Roger that my mistake.
I think i use H-1000 with my 20" 375 CT (352 CE)

 

[Wild_Bill]

Roger that my mistake.
I think i use H-1000 with my 20" 375 CT (352 CE)

I know where you are coming from most people think using short barrels they need to change to a faster powder. Usually the best performing load in the longer barrel still has the correct pressure curve to give the best performance. Look at a 223SBR the military don't use different loads in short barrels.
And as mentioned a bigger case will give better performance if both loaded to the same pressure.
There is so much mis information in this thread saying a smaller case out performs a larger case in the short barrel. But they take a low pressure standard case and compare it to handloads in a modern case that can be pushed past loading manual data and are running double based high energy powders.
Run both to the same pressure with the same powder bigger always wins.

 

[Dean2]

I know where you are coming from most people think using short barrels they need to change to a faster powder. Usually the best performing load in the longer barrel still has the correct pressure curve to give the best performance. Look at a 223SBR the military don't use different loads in short barrels.
And as mentioned a bigger case will give better performance if both loaded to the same pressure.
There is so much mis information in this thread saying a smaller case out performs a larger case in the short barrel. But they take a low pressure standard case and compare it to handloads in a modern case that can be pushed past loading manual data and are running double based high energy powders.
Run both to the same pressure with the same powder bigger always wins.

That is why I recommended the 338-378. It is the most case capacity u can reasonably use in a 338.

 

[Wild_Bill]

That is why I recommended the 338-378. It is the most case capacity u can reasonably use in a 338.

Or step it up to a 378Wby
The only issue will be feeding vlds throug a CIP mag

 

[Dean2]

Or step it up to a 378Wby
The only issue will be feeding vlds throug a CIP mag

That works too but then all the 375 options come in to play like the necked down 50 BMG.

 

[Wild_Bill]

That works too but then all the 375 options come in to play like the necked down 50 BMG.

They won't fit a long action with CIP mag though

 

[Ace Quackhunter]

I approach it this way.

Assuming 5000 feet elevation or higher since we're talking elk.

Now what's the most efficient bullet to get there and do work. I'd pick a 230 berger. At 2750 fps you get to 1000 yards with 1850 retained velocity which is your minimum threshold.

What cartridge will get you there. I'd like to say 30 sherman max, 300wm or 30 nosler. I'm a huge fan of the 30 nosler but feel the right powder combo in a short mag variant would do the job. Really need to play around in QL.

Also, I've been researching this quite a bit and it seems 20 inches is the sweet spot. It's not much of a drop off from 22 inches but seems to really outpace an 18.

I recently finished a 20" barreled Savage .338 Win. Mag., throwing 200 gr Noslers out the tube.
Ace

 

[Mt_House_Bound]

I have to admit, your intentions seem good, but I'm not certain you've ever shot an elk, or considering the more likely scenarios.

1. Elk aren't that hard to kill. A kudu is, but any well placed shot with a sectionally dense 140gr bullet with adequate energy will do the job.
- No one wants to hear the "I shot..." story, but like ballistics on 7mm-08 and was successful with difficult shots on kudu, zebra (which are really hard to kill) and a bushbuck with one shot 120gr Barnes copper solids at ranges between 247 and 392 meters. The 392 meter shot was a kudu in brush.

2. Growing up in elk country in NM, I can't remember anyone taking a shot beyond 250 yards. Maybe we we taught not shoot at an animal that you'd likely wound and find carcass parts the following spring

Where I'm going with this is that a 1000yd shoot is unethical - period.

400 yards is about the end of practical. 500 if your really good and on flat terrain.

So, if you want an 18" barrel, the gold standard 308 Winchester works well with short barrel lengths and easily mastered.

The trick to distance shooting is practice and loads, not something a normal guy can't shoot more than 10 times without quivering.

If you're intent on pushing the envelope, I hope you're willing to live with failure.

A short barreled rifle for elk in timber is a smart move. Why else would have cartridges like 348 Winchester been invented. But they were intended for use with open sights.

For the sake of the animal, practice at 200yds and understand what steel sounds like at 500, and remember your more likely to kick a big bull out at 40 yards than line up on one at a 1000.

Sorry this isn't what you want to hear, but you shoot a nice bull with a guilted 338 Lapua at 80 yds, and you probably won't recover the animal unless you're lucky and catch a major vessel.

Bullet will go straight through with no expansion and walk away wondering what kind of wasp just stung it.

Good luck with your hunt and build.

EM

 

[naja302]

I've killed 4 elk
All in New Mexico (when I lived there)
1 with a bow
2 with an open sighted muzzle loader
1 with a rifle-338 Lapua @ 450 yards

honestly I don't really like hunting elk and if I was planning on actually trying to kill one at 1000 yards I'd take my 300 Norma Improved with a good old fashioned 26" barrel to do so.

But this thread is about a very different type of toy.

 

[naja302]

Honestly if we were going to speak "ethically", "for the sake of the animal", we should outlaw bow hunting and muzzle loaders...those are truly the best ways to wound an elk...

I respectfully disagree with about half of your statements.

as a side note I did get to watch my dad kill a kudu and I was truly amazed by the size of it!!! Like an elk on stilts. Perhaps the coolest animal on the planet.

 

[dspeak90]

I like guns and need another one like I need a hole in the head but I have this extra XLR element magnesium chassis and I'm thinking about building a short barreled gun.

I know this has been discussed but I'll ask anyway.

I understand that short barrels castrate big cartridges and I don't care. I don't care about muzzle flash or unburned powder or efficiency etc.

if you think an 18" 338 Lapua is completely ridiculous and should never be done theplease don't respond to this thread (I felt this way a year ago)

now to the question: I want to build a strong magnum long action gun with a short 18"...or maybe 20" barrel. WHAT IS THE BEST CARTRIDGE FOR KILLING ELK to 1000 yards.

elk are tough critters and I don't subscribe to the 7mmRM being sufficient to kill elk with at 1000 with any barrel length (and yes I know it's been done effectively thousands of times)...but I'm looking for something that hits harder than that.

my initial thought is to just do a 338 Lapua (I'm already setup to load that one)...then I started thinking well in that case the 338 Norma is probably a better choice...then my brain went to the 300 Norma with 230 or 245's....

is a 300 Norma not actually faster than a 300 WM if you cut the barrel down that much????

I know we are sacrificing some velocity with a short barrel which is why I went to heavier bullets automatically...but maybe I'm wrong there

also this is not going to be an ELR gun...it's only for 1000 and less so I don't care if we take an entry level ELR cartridge and make it not good enough for ELR.

28 Nosler-375 CT...go

You sir want a Sherman Max, it's a line of cartridges that use the SAUM as a parent cartridge. I'm currently building a 338 Sherman Max with a Bartlein 22" left hand twist barrel on a long action so I can seat bullets long as possible. The cartridge excels in short barrels and Allterra arms has done extensive testing to prove it. Hoping to push 250 grain bullets near 3000 fps. I'll attach the Sherman website. There is also a Sherman wildcat cartridges Facebook group that is extremely helpful.

Sherman Wildcat Cartridges

Precision rifle cartridges with optimized efficiency for extended-range hunting and long range rifle competition.

shermanwildcatcartridges.com

 

[dspeak90]

338 ss at elevation gets your what you want.

I'm building a 338 Max! Bartlein 22" barrel on a Weatherby Mark V long action.

 

[Jcook02]

A place I hunt a lot at in the fall, there is a guy who has killed three out of four bulls with a 7LRM beyond 1k yards. The one that he didn't, the bull was within 200 yards. These are not spikes either, mind you. A person who knows his firearm and shoots a lot, can do some incredible things. I'm not saying that is the caliber I would go with, but I'm also not the marksmen he is either. My current equipment can kill a lot further than I'm able to, I simply don't have the time to devote to shooting like some. That's my fault, not theirs. If my current rifle is ready for a new barrel, I will be looking hard at a 338 RUM with a long barrel or 338-378. Something about those big pills just get my blood pumping.

 

[yorke-1]

You sir want a Sherman Max, it's a line of cartridges that use the SAUM as a parent cartridge. I'm currently building a 338 Sherman Max with a Bartlein 22" left hand twist barrel on a long action so I can seat bullets long as possible. The cartridge excels in short barrels and Allterra arms has done extensive testing to prove it. Hoping to push 250 grain bullets near 3000 fps. I'll attach the Sherman website. There is also a Sherman wildcat cartridges Facebook group that is extremely helpful.

Sherman Wildcat Cartridges

Precision rifle cartridges with optimized efficiency for extended-range hunting and long range rifle competition.

shermanwildcatcartridges.com

I will say, without any hesitation, that if you're shooting a 250gr .338 bullet at nearly 3000fps from a 22" barrel out of a case with 78gr capacity, you're WELL beyond what the majority of shooters would consider safe operating pressures.