Shooting up hill/ Shooting down hill?

[MontanaRifleman]

I don't see how it is physically possible that this graph is true... How can it be off just as much shooting straight up than it is while shooting on a flat plane.. I understand what you're saying about the angle of bbl vs. line of sight but I think somewhere the physics of gravity pulling straight down on a horizontal distance is lost... I'm no physics major but I just don't agree with you're numbers... I do agree that it will be off shooting straight up but no where near the same amount as a 0 degree angle..

When you sight your rifle in @100 yds (or whatever) your bore is angled upward toward your line of sight because it is about 2" below your scope, and your bullet drops a couple of inches by the time it gets to 100 yds. So let's say the total correction is 4". If you aim your rifle straight up, looking through the scope (not your bore), your bore is pointed slightly over your head. At 100 yds straight up, your bullet be 4" from form your line of sight POA. That's why just using the horizontal component of an angled shot doesn't work exactly.

 

[rscott5028]

When you sight your rifle in @100 yds (or whatever) your bore is angled upward toward your line of sight because it is about 2" below your scope, and your bullet drops a couple of inches by the time it gets to 100 yds. So let's say the total correction is 4". If you aim your rifle straight up, looking through the scope (not your bore), your bore is pointed slightly over your head. At 100 yds straight up, your bullet be 4" from form your line of sight POA. That's why just using the horizontal component of an angled shot doesn't work exactly.

Kids - Don't try this at home.

 

[BuckSnort]

When you sight your rifle in @100 yds (or whatever) your bore is angled upward toward your line of sight because it is about 2" below your scope, and your bullet drops a couple of inches by the time it gets to 100 yds. So let's say the total correction is 4". If you aim your rifle straight up, looking through the scope (not your bore), your bore is pointed slightly over your head. At 100 yds straight up, your bullet be 4" from form your line of sight POA. That's why just using the horizontal component of an angled shot doesn't work exactly.

I definately understand the angles just dont agree with the numbers... This is a real informative post for me and I appreciate the read... I was just running some numbers through my shooter app for my phone....

1000 yard target for my chosen bullet I need +23.5 MOA

Same load and enviroment at a 90 deg angle I need -4.1 MOA to hit target..

Is this math correct or flawed?

 

[Michael Eichele]

I definately understand the angles just dont agree with the numbers... This is a real informative post for me and I appreciate the read... I was just running some numbers through my shooter app for my phone....

1000 yard target for my chosen bullet I need +23.5 MOA

Same load and enviroment at a 90 deg angle I need -4.1 MOA to hit target..

Is this math correct or flawed?

If you are doing your numbers based on a 100 yard zero, your numbers should be correct or are VERY close. This is because if you fired your barrel level straight at a 100 yard target, your bullet would be low at 100 yards. To compensate for it and zero the load at 100 yards, your barrel is tilted up a bit. This is why you will hit 4.1 MOA high at 1000 yards at 90 degrees. Which is why your app show -4.1 MOA. To hit dead on at 1000 yards 90 degrees, your bullet impact would have to be low at 100 yards. In other words, the barrel would then be back to the level position.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If your barrel is 0 degrees pointed straight at a 1000 yard target on level ground the bullet will drop a given amount. In my illustration, it was 300". If you compensate for it to hit dead on and then shoot at a target at the same range 90 degrees above you, guess what? To hit that target you have to undo what you just did. In other words you have to come DOWN 300".

I challenge you to input into your phone app a 1000 yard zero at 0 degrees. Then change to 90 degrees. The output inches (high) will be identical to those the same app will calculate for 1000 yard boreline drop (low). One will be a negative and the other positive number but the number will be the same.

Make sense?

 

[BuckSnort]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

If your barrel is 0 degrees pointed straight at a 1000 yard target on level ground the bullet will drop a given amount. In my illustration, it was 300". If you compensate for it to hit dead on and then shoot at a target at the same range 90 degrees above you, guess what? To hit that target you have to undo what you just did. In other words you have to come DOWN 300".

I challenge you to input into your phone app a 1000 yard zero at 0 degrees. Then change to 90 degrees. The output inches (high) will be identical to those the same app will calculate for 1000 yard boreline drop (low). One will be a negative and the other positive number but the number will be the same.

Make sense?

Some of it makes sense.. I input your numbers into my phone with a 1000 yard zero and you are correct... I also for fun input this :

0 yard ZERO

1000 yards +27.8 MOA for level target...

90 deg 1000 yard target +0.2 MOA

_____________________

I think where I got confused was the Zero ranges for you're examples...

 

[WildRose]

Some of it makes sense.. I input your numbers into my phone with a 1000 yard zero and you are correct... I also for fun input this :

0 yard ZERO

1000 yards +27.8 MOA for level target...

90 deg 1000 yard target +0.2 MOA

_____________________

I think where I got confused was the Zero ranges for you're examples...

Only if your scope is a bore scope.

You have to account for the hight of the scope.

You cannot have a zero yard zero unless you cranked your scope to such an angle that the cross hair's were hitting slightly behind the end of your bbl.

A 0 yard zero would have to be a negative number equal to the hight of the scope from centerline of the bore to center line of the scope.

 

[squirrelduster]

If a hunter was in a position to make a clean shot at a big fat White tail Deer that is standing broad side, and is up hill or in the same position but down hill, how should that hunter aim?
The hunter also knows the distance..

This was the original post and I think what he was looking for was aim low.

Very interesting math and the reason we all have programs on our phone or whatever hand held electronic device we take hunting. Just a little to difficult to do in the field unless you have graph paper, some colored pencils, and a really powerful calculator.

 

[WildRose]

This was the original post and I think what he was looking for was aim low.

Very interesting math and the reason we all have programs on our phone or whatever hand held electronic device we take hunting. Just a little to difficult to do in the field unless you have graph paper, some colored pencils, and a really powerful calculator.

Funny I've been shooting things at very long ranges since 1972 when I killed my first priarie dog at 576 paces with a 7mm Mag; with open sights.

I've never carried anything into the field other than a range/drop chart, pencil/paper, weapon, ammo, and since they became reasonably priced and accurate, a range finder. When hunting anything other than things that shoot back that is.

 

[rscott5028]

Funny I've been shooting things at very long ranges since 1972 when I killed my first priarie dog at 576 paces with a 7mm Mag; with open sights.

I've never carried anything into the field other than a range/drop chart, pencil/paper, weapon, ammo, and since they became reasonably priced and accurate, a range finder. When hunting anything other than things that shoot back that is.

Excellent point Wildrose.

If I was shooting at things that shoot back, I'd sure want to do the correct math before squeezing the trigger. gun)

The good news is that it's all pretty much been figured out for us and you can readily obtain proper software and/or a Whiz Wheel like the one developed by Bryan Litz.

Of course, none of that takes the place of practice and experience.

-- richard

 

[WildRose]

Excellent point Wildrose.

If I was shooting at things that shoot back, I'd sure want to do the correct math before squeezing the trigger. gun)

The good news is that it's all pretty much been figured out for us and you can readily obtain proper software and/or a Whiz Wheel like the one developed by Bryan Litz.

Of course, none of that takes the place of practice and experience.

-- richard

The advancements in technology have all but changed "The art of the Sniper" into the "Science of Sniping".

It is utterly amazing for someone my age (48) to have lived through the last 30 years and see what it has brought us.

No matter how much technology one carries into the field however in the end what makes a shot hit is the guy behind the trigger and his ability to pull that trigger at exactly the right moment.

 

[squirrelduster]

Wild rose you are spot on with that last statement, the guy behind the trigger is the key ingredient. No amount of gadgetry will help you if you don't know how to apply the principles and squeeze the trigger at the right moment.
I can hand my rifle to someone and set it for the correct windage and elevation and they can hit a gong every shot, if I give them the equipment the odds are much less.
Practice is the key.
Couple thousand rounds a year at ground squirrels makes you a better shot, specially if you can hit one or two.
Shot 8 this morning with a 22 pistol with iron sights out to 60 yards. Now that is challenging. Certainly not a high percentage day.

 

[WildRose]

Wild rose you are spot on with that last statement, the guy behind the trigger is the key ingredient. No amount of gadgetry will help you if you don't know how to apply the principles and squeeze the trigger at the right moment.
I can hand my rifle to someone and set it for the correct windage and elevation and they can hit a gong every shot, if I give them the equipment the odds are much less.
Practice is the key.
Couple thousand rounds a year at ground squirrels makes you a better shot, specially if you can hit one or two.
Shot 8 this morning with a 22 pistol with iron sights out to 60 yards. Now that is challenging. Certainly not a high percentage day.

We have a huge problem in my part of Texas with water snakes and painted turtles taking over our tanks (ponds).

I spend thousands of rounds every year popping their little head's off with an open sight .22 at up to 120yds.

Those heads present a target of just 1/4-1/2 inch and of course with it being Texas a "calm day" means winds between 10-20mph. They usually present for less than 15 seconds too after the first shot or two.

That makes for some very good practice.

I grew up shooting prairie dogs with an old Wards (stephens I think) .22 squirrel gun.

Between the two there's no better, cheaper, or more fun way to practice and learn to shoot.

Try sneaking up on a prairie dog town close enough to get within range with an open sight .22 sometime... .gun)

 

[sp6x6]

I have spent my life hunting in the mountains of MT. I use what Micheal I believe, refers to the improved riflemans adjustment. I apply cosine to my rifle dope drop. I have taken a 1/2 doz. elk out to 850 doing this with no problem. On a last day, last afternoon rush shot at not to far,502 yrd. I forgot to adjust on a hurried shot, as we set up on 2 bulls, I took mine frontal for a chest shot, dropped like a sack. When we made it down the extreme steep canyon with are crampons, I saw that I had head shot my bull. In hast and lazering for my buddy I forgot to adjust for angle, it worked, but if it was broadside I would have goose egged.Yes I CARRY small solar calc.Hope to get a portable AP. I also have hunted same spots for 20 yrs. and have shot game on many mtn. sides,and crack rocks there for practice,basicallly been ther done that

 

[WildRose]

I have spent my life hunting in the mountains of MT. I use what Micheal I believe, refers to the improved riflemans adjustment. I apply cosine to my rifle dope drop. I have taken a 1/2 doz. elk out to 850 doing this with no problem. On a last day, last afternoon rush shot at not to far,502 yrd. I forgot to adjust on a hurried shot, as we set up on 2 bulls, I took mine frontal for a chest shot, dropped like a sack. When we made it down the extreme steep canyon with are crampons, I saw that I had head shot my bull. In hast and lazering for my buddy I forgot to adjust for angle, it worked, but if it was broadside I would have goose egged.Yes I CARRY small solar calc.Hope to get a portable AP. I also have hunted same spots for 20 yrs. and have shot game on many mtn. sides,and crack rocks there for practice,basicallly been ther done that

Life gets very complicated beyond 800yds which is why precision calculations are essential.

210g bullet, 3000fps at the muzzle, BC of .600, zero at 100yds.

Between 800-100yds, you have a difference of 7.6MOA/116" drop.

http://www.hornady.com/cgi-bin/ball...om=29.53&zero=100&wspd=0&calcbutton=Calculate
Figuring in the angle is then absolutely essential.

On such shots at extreme angles you also have in most cases a very minimal target exposure as well.

Again, we're here to get and give the very best advice for precision shooting at these ranges vs tellign people the best way to cowboy it.

At the price of shooting today, few can afford the thousands of hours, thousands of rounds etc it takes to become proficient without learning to do it right from beginning to end.

When I first started shooting my 7STW it cost me about .30c per round for top quality factory ammo, and I could reload it for about half that price.

Today I'm looking at 3.75 every time I pull the trigger or about 2.00 to load my own.

It ain't the same world we grew up in any more.