Shooting up hill/ Shooting down hill?

[load]

Your formula gives only the range, it ignores the diffent effect of gravity on bullett drop when shooting extreme angles.

by the way the spelling is 'different' not 'diffent' and 'bullet' not 'bullett'

while we are at correcting everyones speeling!

 

[WildRose]

yes i understand this but long range hunting were not exactly trying to pick off eggs on an 85 degree angle. The question was [
If a hunter was in a position to make a clean shot at a big fat White tail Deer that is standing broad side, and is up hill or in the same position but down hill, how should that hunter aim?
The hunter also knows the distance..
]
this equation also does not take into account extreme range.
at normal long ranges on angles encountered in most hunting situations this simple equation will get you close enouph to bag a deer or an elk. on all but the most extreme angles it'll get you close enouph for jack rabbit and yote.

aww dam miss speeled coyote. must mean i missed biology that day

Anything over 30 degrees is an "extreme angle" when you are shooting.

Simply knowing the exact range just gurantees you miss by less if you are not accounting for the difference in elevation.

 

[WildRose]

by the way the spelling is 'different' not 'diffent' and 'bullet' not 'bullett'

while we are at correcting everyones speeling!

I wasn't correcting your spelling.

On the other hand anytime you want to get into a spelling contest with me I promise you will lose.

 

[load]

I wasn't correcting your spelling.

On the other hand anytime you want to get into a spelling contest with me I promise you will lose.

sorry i wasn't really pointing it at u just pizzed me off when whatzhiznuzz corrected mine. i just picked on u to show this isn't a speeling contest (note i missed spelled spelling in the same post as sarcasm) anyhow 30 degrees is not so extreme that the simple cosine x distance formula will not work out to 1000 (pushing the limit albeit) on a whitetail deer (14" vitals) gun)which was the original question

 

[Buffalobob]

Poor quality advice is poor quality advice and repeating it doesn't make it any better, its still poor quality.

 

[mike33]

And who cares about spelling anyway, heck most of us are only a bunch of high tech rednecks anyway.gun)
mike

 

[load]

Poor quality advice is poor quality advice and repeating it doesn't make it any better, its still poor quality.

look blob i understand the whole cosine x the drop bit but the difference is so small it isnt going to matter on a whitetail which was the question anyway. most people will not encounter a situation were cosine x range will not work for them when shooting at big game and is much easier to explain than going into technical details. like i said earlier the question was about shooting whitetail not eggs besides its not "my math" its the typical "riflemans rule"

 

[rcdinaz]

Your formula gives only the range, it ignores the diffent effect of gravity on bullett drop when shooting extreme angles.

okay now i am confused! i thought gravity was a constant and was negligible due to angle? horizontal distance, drift, rotation, what am i missing about effect of gravity for shooting?

 

[WildRose]

okay now i am confused! i thought gravity was a constant and was negligible due to angle? horizontal distance, drift, rotation, what am i missing about effect of gravity for shooting?

You would be in error.

When shooting up or down at a high angle the drop of the bullet for each yard travled is going to be a great deal less than a bullet fired at a target at your same elevation.

Think of it this way, if you are shooting either stright up or straight down, the only real effect gravity has on the bullet is on it's velocity.

When fired paralell to the earth, the bullet falls at a predictable rate based on the pull of gravity. For each yard of forward travel, you have a specific rate of drop.

 

[Scott300RUM]

I am also wanting to have a better understanding of shooting at angles. I used to think that when you were shooting uphill you would have to aim high, due to gravity pulling you back down. And having to aim low when shooting downhill because you are going with gravity.

Now I know that's wrong because I've read everywhere that it doesn't work that way. But could someone help me paint a picture in my mind of why exactly it doesn't work that way.

Thanks for your help,
Scott

 

[load]

I am also wanting to have a better understanding of shooting at angles. I used to think that when you were shooting uphill you would have to aim high, due to gravity pulling you back down. And having to aim low when shooting downhill because you are going with gravity.

Now I know that's wrong because I've read everywhere that it doesn't work that way. But could someone help me paint a picture in my mind of why exactly it doesn't work that way.

Thanks for your help,
Scott

heres a quick and easy way to visually explain whats happening. take a tape measure extend it out horizantally and make note were it breaks over. now take that same tape and pull it out on an angle both up hill and down hill. then note how far HORIZANTALLY it is when it breaks. you'll get more tape out but it will break in reletively the same horizantal distance

heres the actual math for the riflemans rule

most simplify it to cosine x distance others use thier drop tables for the distance to target and use cosine x drop the result is fairly close to each other less than 1 minute of angle.
gun)

 

[load]

okay now i am confused! i thought gravity was a constant and was negligible due to angle? horizontal distance, drift, rotation, what am i missing about effect of gravity for shooting?

it is a constant and the bullet does encounter the same gravity. however the linear moment "spine" of energy is working differently against/with gravity than when shot horizantal. eventually you get to a point were none of this math will work the same for up/down hillgun)but then your shooting cannons!

 

[rcdinaz]

Load thanks for the cannonball example, I found some similar analogies to satellite flight/launch and a golf ball example. I think I am on the same page and looking at the Sierra link (below) we can still pretty much assume gravity is a negligible based on it being constant (9.8m/s). I think I was confused more by semantics... time of flight vs gravity. As you mentioned there is some difference in the theoretical realm especially at extreme angles of 90 deg & 180 deg but am I correct that for trajectory calculations most will use it is not really a factor?

Sorry to beat a dead horse on this still trying to make sure I have a proper grasp on this topic. I am rally looking at this trying to determine at what ranges a rifle mounted angle indicator starts to reach its limit on usefulness and if there are any possible errors/assumptions to be aware of in most of the ballistics programs out there.

It has been over 20 years since I had to actually do the math and the trig and calc equation make my head hurt.


exterior ballistics

 

[yobuck]

very good and spirited debate. even some spelling lessons thrown in.
BOB, dont feel bad about the misspelled name. it could have been worse. lol

my personal take is that angle shooting is but one of the important things involved.
there are others and all need be considered equally.
a miss is a miss wether caused by angle, wind, bad position, etc.
be aware of these things and find what works for you and your style of hunting.
all of our hunting is done from lookouts. we dont move about as some do in other areas.
all shooting is done from some sort of bench also.
an angle indicator and a cheap calculator or premade chart work well for us.
my engineer grandson simply holds his ipod next to the barrel and has an answer in seconds. usually while im looking for my chart.

sooner or later your just going to have to shoot.
hopefully at least some thought has been given to a miss.