Loading a bipod foreshortens (reduces) the effective vertical height of the bipod.....like a clock hand moving off of 12 position. Upon recoil, this height reduction is regained pushing the fore end...and barrel...vertically. Typically causes vertical rise or stringing of group. Bipod feet also commonly skitter across a bench surface in recoil. As suggested earlier in replies, ditch the bipod; use bag/pack under fore end and allow rifle to slide rearward with recoil.
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Shooting heavy recoiling rifle from bench-beginner here
- Thread starter Ftothfadd
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Lordy Carl, I use a .338WM on the BIG groundhogs here in West Kentucky and it kills them all,never need a second shot..LOL
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Magnaporting makes the gun extremely loud and throws the flash up right in your eyes. It also significantly shortens your effective barrel length.
A quality muzzle brake is a far better solution.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
What I've also found is that when shooting off of a concrete bench, flat rock etc the bipod also tends to magnify the torque effect causing a significant hop in most larger caliber rifles.
While they are certainly very popular bipods with the smaller/weaker legs like the Harris seem to magnify it even more.
Get those legs in the dirt, on a pad etc and you're far better off if you're going to use one at all.
Hatrick
Well-Known Member
When I purchsed my rum in 2001 I sent it to Proport. They did a nice looking job but it never shot under 21/2" again. Tried on and off for 3 years. Finally had it rebarreled with a brake and all good now.(except for the 12 twist)
yobuck
Well-Known Member
We can have a discussion about various opinions, and we can also discuss some facts.
Bipods can be a very affective way of supporting a gun, but it does have some short comings especially for beginners.
Muzzel brakes aren't liked by everybody, but they do help with recoil and controlling the muzzle.
The biggest plus for the brake is that it is very helpful in you seeing your own hits at distance.
We put brakes on all the guns we use for long range hunting including heavy ones, and even practice shooting guns like 308s.
Remember this when long range hunting, if you lose site of the animal thru recoil, especially when hunting in trees, your apt to become toast.
Find ways to control the muzzle jump.
Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
I appreciate what you're saying @yobuck but how do you see through the muzzle flash? What about a lightweight magnum? Even with a brake a lot of hunting rifles have enough muzzle jump to take one off target.
It's a valid point, but to me (longtime hunter, new to LR) the issue of spotting hits has more to do with getting back on target, rather than staying on target.
As a shooter, it's just not possible to watch the target all the time. Personally I don't mind losing the target for a fraction of a second, so long as I'm back on before the bullet arrives.
The fact is, trading 1/2 the recoil energy for 10x the sound energy is not a sensible choice for everyone.
My main hunting rifle is a 30-06. At just over 7lbs, a 200gr bullet at 2700fps generates very similar recoil energy to a 10lb .338WM shooting a 250gr at 2700fps.
To be honest, I struggle to see impact between about 200-300yd, but 400 and beyond have no trouble. I don't shoot that rifle off a bipod either though...
It's a valid point, but to me (longtime hunter, new to LR) the issue of spotting hits has more to do with getting back on target, rather than staying on target.
As a shooter, it's just not possible to watch the target all the time. Personally I don't mind losing the target for a fraction of a second, so long as I'm back on before the bullet arrives.
The fact is, trading 1/2 the recoil energy for 10x the sound energy is not a sensible choice for everyone.
My main hunting rifle is a 30-06. At just over 7lbs, a 200gr bullet at 2700fps generates very similar recoil energy to a 10lb .338WM shooting a 250gr at 2700fps.
To be honest, I struggle to see impact between about 200-300yd, but 400 and beyond have no trouble. I don't shoot that rifle off a bipod either though...
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The physics are FAR from simple when it comes to barrels and shooting. Heat and barrel expansion are merely two of the myriad variables. I am not going to get in a long debate with someone who has long ago closed his mind to new info but I did find it very interesting to find this article right on this site by Don Bitz, the owner of Stocky's Stocks on the very topic of full length bedding rifle stocks. He does ALL of his personal guns and his friends fully bedded. I know this goes against the conventional wisdom but thought there are quite a few on here that might benefit from seeing the alternate point of view.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/free-floating-barrels-panacea-or-pain-in-the-neck.1220/
yobuck
Well-Known Member
You seem to be answering at least part of your own question.
First off though, the bullet will arrive at the target
almost as fast as you can blink at even 500, so controlling muzzle jump is criticle. As for the noise factor, many hunters use ear protection when shooting, even when hunting. Due to terrain, were pretty much forced to hunt from fixed locations, and shoot from portable benches. We also use the hunting buddy spotter system, and that of coarse helps with seeing the hits. And lastly, we use a slide type front rest that allows for straight back recoil but very little muzzle jump. But this is not the type stuff that many western hunters would employ due to their type hunting style.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
That is actually the exact method I ise to hunt deer, elk, and pronghorn in Wyoming, from the plainse to 10,000 ft. + elevation. I usially hunt with my cousin, we spot for eachother, we use short 6-9" or 9-13" bipods and rear bags, I have a muzzle brake on my 13.5 lb .260 AI, not necessary at all but even in the most awkward field positions there is so little recpil that I always see my bullet impact reguardless the range. He jas a 13.5 lb 7mm rem mag and is beginning to see the need for a brale with the shooting we do. He wasn't able to spot a shot on a pronghorn even at 500 yards, die to the awkward position on some sand stone, but I was watching and it dropped in place.
I understand not everyone wants to employ brakes, and that is fine, but if your concerned about it being loud, you really should be wearing ear plugs withput a brake as well, the actual damage to your hearing is not much different
Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
@yobuck thanks for the context. That sounds like a very effective setup.
Hearing damage is irreparable. From my perspective, damage is damage and should be mitigated wherever possible. I think it's safest to leave it at that, and fully agree with your closing sentiment.
From a physiological perspective though, 1 shot from an braked rifle can do as much damage as 10 shots from a standard muzzle.
Obviously this depends on brake design and barrel length, but 1 order of magnitude is significant.
To me that's enough to warrant doubling up on plugs/muffs whenever I'm in the vicinity of a brake.
By today's standards, a good brake will reduce recoil energy by upwards of 50%. It will increase sound energy by up to 1000%.
Hearing damage is irreparable. From my perspective, damage is damage and should be mitigated wherever possible. I think it's safest to leave it at that, and fully agree with your closing sentiment.
From a physiological perspective though, 1 shot from an braked rifle can do as much damage as 10 shots from a standard muzzle.
Obviously this depends on brake design and barrel length, but 1 order of magnitude is significant.
To me that's enough to warrant doubling up on plugs/muffs whenever I'm in the vicinity of a brake.
By today's standards, a good brake will reduce recoil energy by upwards of 50%. It will increase sound energy by up to 1000%.
Interesting information on the increase of sound E by brakes.
Regardless, I try to be sure to never fire a rifle in training without ear protection, and even during hunting if the action is not too fast. However, there are cases when shots have to be made quickly, and in these cases I would prefer an unbreaked rifle if I have no time to employ ear protection.
I will be out on the range hopefully during the second half this week and will see how I shoot with a towel under. the bipod legs and by holding the forehand.
Regardless, I try to be sure to never fire a rifle in training without ear protection, and even during hunting if the action is not too fast. However, there are cases when shots have to be made quickly, and in these cases I would prefer an unbreaked rifle if I have no time to employ ear protection.
I will be out on the range hopefully during the second half this week and will see how I shoot with a towel under. the bipod legs and by holding the forehand.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
This is worthy of reiterating and expanding on for sure.
The more a brake directs the blast back towards the shooter the more damaging it will be to your ears.
Some of the most efficient recoil reducing brakes direct the gases back at around 40deg or more which is really punishing on the shooter.
Between my time in the service and too many years of not hunting/shooting with proper hearing protection I've lost over half of my hearing and will never get it back.
Knowing what we know today and with all the options available there's no excuses left for not using hearing protection every time we head out.
