Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
You do a lot of posting for a guy who stays clear of here.
SHERMAN MEGA LINE
- Thread starter elkaholic
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You do a lot of posting for a guy who stays clear of here.
It seems every post ends up this way anymore
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
You got your feelings hurt so you're going to hurt one of your wants. Stay safe.
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
Why!? The brass is the weak link. Why not go with the safest combo?
VLD Pilot ^^^^^^Some wise words there, sometimes folks on both sides of a disagreement get emotional. Ryan is definitely passionate about his stance, I don't think he said anything rude but it was unfortunate that the thread got derailed. Many folks throughout the thread agitated one another and that wasn't the gentleman thing to do but we are all sinners and do fail routinely.I hope Mr Rich realizes this was unique and will continue to post his developments on LRH.
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
I have a real world question. First, I have not read a lot about testing. I like to shoot and don't know much beyond that. I remember P.O. Ackley working up a maximum load in a Weatherby Mark V. He put the same load in a Mouser and it blew up the rifle. So he tried the same load in the Weatherby again and again it was "fine". So he tried it again in a different Mouser and again it was destroyed.
Would you safety guys say the load was unsafe in the Weatherby? Where did the 65,000 number come from? Was it established to be safe in a Mouser, thus being "safe" in all rifles?
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
Correct, physics are physics. But sometimes what one thinks are the limits are not the physical limits.
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
Bob Nosler once told me, "Max pressure blows up guns. Average pressure imparts velocity to bullets."
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
It's time to follow Rich Sherman's lead and exit this post. Nothing left to say. Almost everyone gets the point.
Sharing wisdom gained through experience in the spirit of cooperation and harmony is relentlessly punished by people attempting to be relevant by bashing every single new thing. Forums are filled with it. The art of respectful criticism is gone from the earth. Every new thing I've announced on forums in the last decade has been relentlessly attacked by arrogant skeptics. Enough to cause me to constantly second guess my presence within the communities I've participated in over the years. It's so much easier to just not participate.
Most of my peers in the industry actively avoid forums. They'd rather catch covid, twice, than come to a forum and participate. This thread is yet another perfect example of why they feel that way. The mob mentality can wear a guy out quite quickly. With so many posters being entirely incompetent, it's an easy mistake to think that every poster is incompetent. There are always members that spend significantly more time on their keyboards than they do their rifles. It shows too. They are quite skilled at assaulting other members contributions to this discipline.
We are witnessing the systematic silencing of experts in every discipline. Experts are simply looking on and saying, "very well, I'll leave you where I found you." We are all created equal, yet we do not long remain so after our birth. The power of individual achievement should be celebrated and encouraged, not scowled at. Shouldn't someone attempting to advance the discipline be granted some latitude in their presentation? Shouldn't they be questioned in such a way that would allow them to discuss their contribution without feeling attacked? The simple fact is that not all men can do what another man can do. Great strides forward will come from individual achievement. The mere attempt should be applauded, not discouraged.
Honorable dialogue and self discipline is not something practiced frequently enough. Everything new, is attacked on forums. I've not seen but a precious few innovations that were not. Then, should the innovation succeed in spite of those years of ruthless attacks... those same people can then be seen recommending it as if it was their idea to begin with. In no instance do they credit the innovator, either.
I have only spoken with Rich Sherman on one occasion a few weeks ago. He was nothing but accommodating, knowledgeable, and professional. I've elected to go a different direction for my project, but that decision was in no way due to any treatment I received. I hold my own opinions regarding advertised capabilities of cartridges versus their real world performance, yet I feel no burning desire to bludgeon any person or organization with that. Every single company that has released a cartridge in my entire life has always advertised the maximum capability. If they do not, then they will likely not achieve success. The reality of that cartridges final performance in the hands of a skilled handloader that is an expert at finding forgiving nodes will discover soon enough its true capabilities. That has suited everyone well enough to this point. It is not likely to change. Rich is playing by the rules the industry has set, rightly or wrongly. He should be encouraged to succeed. It will be hard enough for him to do so even with our encouragement... but if he can, we will all be better for it. If he doesn't succeed, then time will reveal that defeat well enough on its own. Defeat is a powerful enough foe to not need anyone's help.
I still remember being an advocate of 6BR, 6BRX, 6BRA, 6Dasher... during a time when everyone was running big 6mm's and 6.5's in PRS. The venom filled vitriolic statements I endured from people during that time was almost unbearable. Fast forward to today, and time has proven me correct and them incorrect. Yet I don't dwell on the victory, instead I dwell on the fact that men largely have not changed. They approach what they do not know as if they have the certainty of knowing it.
www.britannica.com
Is it really so difficult to simply say; "I'm skeptical of your performance claims, but I eagerly await such a time when you can convincingly demonstrate my skepticism is misplaced. Please do perform actual pressure testing and provide those data points so that I may give you the best possible chance at winning my support. I wish you success in your endeavor and if you are indeed successful, we'll all benefit and recognize you for it!" You can even provide feedback respectfully. "I've not seen compelling evidence to support your claims thus far. Is there any other evidence or data you can provide which you feel would more adequately demonstrate your position? It's entirely possible I'm missing something..."
I can be respectful, and remain skeptical, while also providing encouragement... all at the same time. This is a skill that many of you would do well to learn. Stand upright, and stop abusing your self worth by falling victim to vitriolic behaviors toward others. It makes you lesser, and that effect is inescapable.
@elkaholic I've reached the point of throwing in the towel and refusing to participate many times before. My desire to share what I've learned eventually overpowers my fear of wrongful persecution. I've found that I had to set down quite a lot of anger, resentment, and frankly my expectations of others in order to continue. I've had to forgive people for allowing themselves to be debased by their ridiculous and illogical behavior. This is not to say that I'm always successful. Reading idiotic recommendations given by wholly inexperienced people still causes me to get upset often times. It's a struggle, but none the less its also very rewarding to persevere in the face of such a seemingly unstoppable flood of vitriolic inexperienced people. I understand this can be difficult, and I hope that you can reconcile that in your mind and your heart. If you feel like I can help you with it in any way, feel free to call me up anytime. That invite is extended to any of you that find yourselves struggling with maintaining your integrity as well. Hardening your resolve in the position of inexperience is a very dangerous thing. If you think I can help provide perspective to get you out of that rut, please do give me a call. Maybe I can help.
Most of my peers in the industry actively avoid forums. They'd rather catch covid, twice, than come to a forum and participate. This thread is yet another perfect example of why they feel that way. The mob mentality can wear a guy out quite quickly. With so many posters being entirely incompetent, it's an easy mistake to think that every poster is incompetent. There are always members that spend significantly more time on their keyboards than they do their rifles. It shows too. They are quite skilled at assaulting other members contributions to this discipline.
We are witnessing the systematic silencing of experts in every discipline. Experts are simply looking on and saying, "very well, I'll leave you where I found you." We are all created equal, yet we do not long remain so after our birth. The power of individual achievement should be celebrated and encouraged, not scowled at. Shouldn't someone attempting to advance the discipline be granted some latitude in their presentation? Shouldn't they be questioned in such a way that would allow them to discuss their contribution without feeling attacked? The simple fact is that not all men can do what another man can do. Great strides forward will come from individual achievement. The mere attempt should be applauded, not discouraged.
Honorable dialogue and self discipline is not something practiced frequently enough. Everything new, is attacked on forums. I've not seen but a precious few innovations that were not. Then, should the innovation succeed in spite of those years of ruthless attacks... those same people can then be seen recommending it as if it was their idea to begin with. In no instance do they credit the innovator, either.
I have only spoken with Rich Sherman on one occasion a few weeks ago. He was nothing but accommodating, knowledgeable, and professional. I've elected to go a different direction for my project, but that decision was in no way due to any treatment I received. I hold my own opinions regarding advertised capabilities of cartridges versus their real world performance, yet I feel no burning desire to bludgeon any person or organization with that. Every single company that has released a cartridge in my entire life has always advertised the maximum capability. If they do not, then they will likely not achieve success. The reality of that cartridges final performance in the hands of a skilled handloader that is an expert at finding forgiving nodes will discover soon enough its true capabilities. That has suited everyone well enough to this point. It is not likely to change. Rich is playing by the rules the industry has set, rightly or wrongly. He should be encouraged to succeed. It will be hard enough for him to do so even with our encouragement... but if he can, we will all be better for it. If he doesn't succeed, then time will reveal that defeat well enough on its own. Defeat is a powerful enough foe to not need anyone's help.
I still remember being an advocate of 6BR, 6BRX, 6BRA, 6Dasher... during a time when everyone was running big 6mm's and 6.5's in PRS. The venom filled vitriolic statements I endured from people during that time was almost unbearable. Fast forward to today, and time has proven me correct and them incorrect. Yet I don't dwell on the victory, instead I dwell on the fact that men largely have not changed. They approach what they do not know as if they have the certainty of knowing it.
Dunning-Kruger effect | Definition, Examples, & Facts | Britannica
Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of...
www.britannica.com
Is it really so difficult to simply say; "I'm skeptical of your performance claims, but I eagerly await such a time when you can convincingly demonstrate my skepticism is misplaced. Please do perform actual pressure testing and provide those data points so that I may give you the best possible chance at winning my support. I wish you success in your endeavor and if you are indeed successful, we'll all benefit and recognize you for it!" You can even provide feedback respectfully. "I've not seen compelling evidence to support your claims thus far. Is there any other evidence or data you can provide which you feel would more adequately demonstrate your position? It's entirely possible I'm missing something..."
I can be respectful, and remain skeptical, while also providing encouragement... all at the same time. This is a skill that many of you would do well to learn. Stand upright, and stop abusing your self worth by falling victim to vitriolic behaviors toward others. It makes you lesser, and that effect is inescapable.
@elkaholic I've reached the point of throwing in the towel and refusing to participate many times before. My desire to share what I've learned eventually overpowers my fear of wrongful persecution. I've found that I had to set down quite a lot of anger, resentment, and frankly my expectations of others in order to continue. I've had to forgive people for allowing themselves to be debased by their ridiculous and illogical behavior. This is not to say that I'm always successful. Reading idiotic recommendations given by wholly inexperienced people still causes me to get upset often times. It's a struggle, but none the less its also very rewarding to persevere in the face of such a seemingly unstoppable flood of vitriolic inexperienced people. I understand this can be difficult, and I hope that you can reconcile that in your mind and your heart. If you feel like I can help you with it in any way, feel free to call me up anytime. That invite is extended to any of you that find yourselves struggling with maintaining your integrity as well. Hardening your resolve in the position of inexperience is a very dangerous thing. If you think I can help provide perspective to get you out of that rut, please do give me a call. Maybe I can help.
This is very true Mr Rich. Just so you know I was by no means being rude, just in case you took it that way. As I am sure you know this, but for others the pressure within the chamber varies greatly by the orifice that is releasing pressure which in our case is the barrel diameter. As well as the bearing surface of the bullet. I don't have the experience Mr Sherman does creating these cartridges and there is no doubt there is a level of danger involved but with some precautions it can be mitigated somewhat. I kind of rambled here but what I was getting too is defining "excessive pressure" is not as easy to predict or calculate with so many non-standard variables.
Send it 284
Well-Known Member
WowSharing wisdom gained through experience in the spirit of cooperation and harmony is relentlessly punished by people attempting to be relevant by bashing every single new thing. Forums are filled with it. The art of respectful criticism is gone from the earth. Every new thing I've announced on forums in the last decade has been relentlessly attacked by arrogant skeptics. Enough to cause me to constantly second guess my presence within the communities I've participated in over the years. It's so much easier to just not participate.
Most of my peers in the industry actively avoid forums. They'd rather catch covid, twice, than come to a forum and participate. This thread is yet another perfect example of why they feel that way. The mob mentality can wear a guy out quite quickly. With so many posters being entirely incompetent, it's an easy mistake to think that every poster is incompetent. There are always members that spend significantly more time on their keyboards than they do their rifles. It shows too. They are quite skilled at assaulting other members contributions to this discipline.
We are witnessing the systematic silencing of experts in every discipline. Experts are simply looking on and saying, "very well, I'll leave you where I found you." We are all created equal, yet we do not long remain so after our birth. The power of individual achievement should be celebrated and encouraged, not scowled at. Shouldn't someone attempting to advance the discipline be granted some latitude in their presentation? Shouldn't they be questioned in such a way that would allow them to discuss their contribution without feeling attacked? The simple fact is that not all men can do what another man can do. Great strides forward will come from individual achievement. The mere attempt should be applauded, not discouraged.
Honorable dialogue and self discipline is not something practiced frequently enough. Everything new, is attacked on forums. I've not seen but a precious few innovations that were not. Then, should the innovation succeed in spite of those years of ruthless attacks... those same people can then be seen recommending it as if it was their idea to begin with. In no instance do they credit the innovator, either.
I have only spoken with Rich Sherman on one occasion a few weeks ago. He was nothing but accommodating, knowledgeable, and professional. I've elected to go a different direction for my project, but that decision was in no way due to any treatment I received. I hold my own opinions regarding advertised capabilities of cartridges versus their real world performance, yet I feel no burning desire to bludgeon any person or organization with that. Every single company that has released a cartridge in my entire life has always advertised the maximum capability. If they do not, then they will likely not achieve success. The reality of that cartridges final performance in the hands of a skilled handloader that is an expert at finding forgiving nodes will discover soon enough its true capabilities. That has suited everyone well enough to this point. It is not likely to change. Rich is playing by the rules the industry has set, rightly or wrongly. He should be encouraged to succeed. It will be hard enough for him to do so even with our encouragement... but if he can, we will all be better for it. If he doesn't succeed, then time will reveal that defeat well enough on its own. Defeat is a powerful enough foe to not need anyone's help.
I still remember being an advocate of 6BR, 6BRX, 6BRA, 6Dasher... during a time when everyone was running big 6mm's and 6.5's in PRS. The venom filled vitriolic statements I endured from people during that time was almost unbearable. Fast forward to today, and time has proven me correct and them incorrect. Yet I don't dwell on the victory, instead I dwell on the fact that men largely have not changed. They approach what they do not know as if they have the certainty of knowing it.
Dunning-Kruger effect | Definition, Examples, & Facts | Britannica
Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of...
Is it really so difficult to simply say; "I'm skeptical of your performance claims, but I eagerly await such a time when you can convincingly demonstrate my skepticism is misplaced. Please do perform actual pressure testing and provide those data points so that I may give you the best possible chance at winning my support. I wish you success in your endeavor and if you are indeed successful, we'll all benefit and recognize you for it!" You can even provide feedback respectfully. "I've not seen compelling evidence to support your claims thus far. Is there any other evidence or data you can provide which you feel would more adequately demonstrate your position? It's entirely possible I'm missing something..."
I can be respectful, and remain skeptical, while also providing encouragement... all at the same time. This is a skill that many of you would do well to learn. Stand upright, and stop abusing your self worth by falling victim to vitriolic behaviors toward others. It makes you lesser, and that effect is inescapable.
@elkaholic I've reached the point of throwing in the towel and refusing to participate many times before. My desire to share what I've learned eventually overpowers my fear of wrongful persecution. I've found that I had to set down quite a lot of anger, resentment, and frankly my expectations of others in order to continue. I've had to forgive people for allowing themselves to be debased by their ridiculous and illogical behavior. This is not to say that I'm always successful. Reading idiotic recommendations given by wholly inexperienced people still causes me to get upset often times. It's a struggle, but none the less its also very rewarding to persevere in the face of such a seemingly unstoppable flood of vitriolic inexperienced people. I understand this can be difficult, and I hope that you can reconcile that in your mind and your heart. If you feel like I can help you with it in any way, feel free to call me up anytime. That invite is extended to any of you that find yourselves struggling with maintaining your integrity as well. Hardening your resolve in the position of inexperience is a very dangerous thing. If you think I can help provide perspective to get you out of that rut, please do give me a call. Maybe I can help.
That was very well said
I think we all could learn something from those remarks
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
I'm an idiot at times. I can see it and admit it and have plenty of times. Also an apology is sometimes rarely heard by those that need to make them more than most. Here lies the problem with his words. When one is wrong, admit it and we all can move on in peace and hopefully future agreement. When a member calls others "Clueless" in reloading, it wreaks of his being superior to everyone else here. These forums are full of disagreement, that's what makes people learn. Respect is something earned and some people never earn it. Many times they buy it by the use of their knowledge in areas like this. I've heard a couple people here speak of his knowledge or expertise in reloading and so it seems maybe to those people, his respect was bought. It's not how it works for me. I expect treatment the same way I give it. 99% of the forum members give it as they get it. That's what keeps us all here.
coyotezapper
Well-Known Member
Weatherbys have a mile of freebore and this reduces peak pressure curve and makes it more forgiving. On the opposite end a minimum spec reamer will have minimal freebore and will pressure up earlier and quicker. If you send a piece of brass with a bullet seated to your desired length to a reamer maker the reamer will be cut to that spec and will have a limited freebore. My 330 Dakota reamer was cut for a 250 EH and the freebore is .060" A saami spec reamer is generally right in the middle. For my 28 Nosler builds I used a saami spec reamer with .188" freebore. So yes a load in a Weatherby would be way over pressured in a saami or min spec chamber.
