Sectioned 30cal bullets. For reference

[loonie]

I would like to see Nosler 210 lrab section compared to the 212 x. They don't shed there jackets like the x bullets do. Running them at high speed , 3125, from 300 prc on elk this year from 30 yards to 300 and they worked fantastic. Held together very well even busting thru both shoulders on one elk with very little blood shot or meat damage on any of them!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I always like seeing sectioned bullet pics, good stuff! What's the easiest way to go about sectioning bullets anyway? I'd like to try doing a few myself, but I dont have a vice for some reason...

 

[bigngreen]

Another part of the equation you don't get from sectioning is the chemistry of the jacket and the core which is huge as well.

 

[epoletna]

The top photo -- the 208 ELDM -- appears to have two lead cores. By which I mean, there's a rear core, then what appears to be a separate piece of lead that is put in after the larger core is formed. To the OP: is there really a line separating the rear portion of the core from the front portion? That would seem to be a very expensive (and unnecessary) way to form the lead core.

 

[shawnb]

The top photo -- the 208 ELDM -- appears to have two lead cores. By which I mean, there's a rear core, then what appears to be a separate piece of lead that is put in after the larger core is formed. To the OP: is there really a line separating the rear portion of the core from the front portion? That would seem to be a very expensive (and unnecessary) way to form the lead core.

No that was just my hack job haha. My garage is torn apart for a remodel so all i had to use was a hacksaw and my hands. Not the best, or quickest, way to do it but i feel you get the idea.

 

[Raudy707]

I would like to see Nosler 210 lrab section compared to the 212 x. They don't shed there jackets like the x bullets do. Running them at high speed , 3125, from 300 prc on elk this year from 30 yards to 300 and they worked fantastic. Held together very well even busting thru both shoulders on one elk with very little blood shot or meat damage on any of them!

The Nosler bullet is actually bonded so it has much better odds of holding together. I've killed a few animals now with each and prefer the Accubond LR. That being said, the ablr is more finicky to good groups. Some rifles just won't shoot them.

 

[epoletna]

Raudy707: Do you know how it is bonded?

 

[gsp2west]

The more bullets you can section and show us the better. It will help us all make informed decisions without the hype..

 

[Raudy707]

Raudy707: Do you know how it is bonded?

I don't. I can only quote Nosler.
"AccuBond® -LR bullet was designed to have a minimum impact velocity of 1300fps in order to reliably expand or mushroom at those much longer distances, compared to the 1800fps minimum impact velocity of all other Nosler® hunting bullets. Now what about close range performance? Because the lead core is bonded to the copper jacket, the AccuBond®-LR bullet will hold up to extreme velocities. To further assist performance at such a wide range of impact velocities, the copper jacket is tapered, meaning it is thin at the nose, becoming much thicker towards the boat-tail base."
I have one recovery of a 168 grain bullet out of my 280 AI which avg 2996 fps. Very accurate. Shot a cow quartering to in the shoulder, punched through, took out the lungs and was in the rear leg. Lead only smeared on the jacket displaying its bonding characteristics. 460 yds. Did a great job. DOA.

 

[epoletna]

Thanks. Interesting photo.

 

[Raudy707]

Thanks. Interesting photo.

Yeah you see the lead smearing to the tips of the mushroom petals. If I did that with a Ballistic Tip or ELD-X there is always separation and lots of times the lead core just falls out. Doesn't mean they aren't effective killers, but clearly they aren't bonded.

 

[jimirwin]

It is my understanding that the Berger match bullets have thicker jacket material than the "hunting" bullets, as the original match bullet jackets were blowing up in long shot strings and with rough gun throats in competition matches. Their original match bullet jackets are now the "hunting bulllet" jackets.

I got the message below from Walt Berger himself in 2009.
My query to him is copied below his answer.

Hi Jim,
Our original VLD bullets were used by long range match shooters. It was then determined that they were a good hunting bullet. The long range target shooters were abusing the bullets by rapid fire excessive long barrels equipment staying out in the sun and getting excessively hot and they were having some in flight bullet failures. Long story short the jacket material was thickened up for the target bullets and left the same for the hunting bullets. This is the difference between the two bullets. The original VLD bullet has been such a good hunting bullet we are not about to change it. The heavier jacket for the target shooters has solved their problems so now (I hope) everyone is happy.
If we can be of any additional help feel free to contact us.
Walt Berger
Berger Bullets
Technical Adviser

In a message dated 06/30/09 12:02:00 US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes:

Berger lists target VLDs and hunting VLDs.
Published info says VLDs (all) are good for hunting.
Same published specs; different part numbers.
What difference(s) might there be?

 

[MZmoose]

FYI, that's basically the common denominator of match bullets.. jackets are as thin as they can be. There's reasons for that to do with consistent density. Might also notice what's more important, the width of the stem on the polymer tip. On the hunting model it's much wider which will initiate expansion more violently. It appears they used a very thick jacket and a very wide polymer tip to allow it to open up at relatively low velocities but to not go completely to pieces at higher impact velocities but I don't know that it's all that effective at serving both masters. Friends of mine in Africa that own game farms have been relaying horror stories of closer range impacts with ELD-X where the bullet is just going completely to pieces and not penetrating very deep. They seem to be best left to longer range shots, outside 300m.

My experience is the same with the eldx. 30-06 178gr, Mule deer at 200 yds and the bullet peeled down past the tiny interlock ring and completely came apart. Stopped using them after that since we hunt elk as well. Our shots can be 50 yds to 500yds. I suspect they work better at longer ranges. Shot up what I had at coyotes, they work good for dogs.

 

[bigngreen]

The more bullets you can section and show us the better. It will help us all make informed decisions without the hype..

How, unless you know the chemistry of the components and shoot them into the same media you won't be able to actually compare them apples to apples, you can have a thin jacket bullet that is more resistant to opening because of the chemistry in the copper or a harder lead core. You can have a thicker jacket but dead soft that looks awesome for holding together but because it's dead soft it actually mushrooms back quite easy. I've worked on a couple bullets and there was definite changed when the cup type was changed or the lead alloy and in mono's there is a LARGE difference in how they function based on the chemistry.