Scope field evaluations on rokslide

[Phil Rizzo]

I don't.
my choice of optics has given me reliable performance, so I keep using them.
His tests reiterate my experience.
Are the tests or optics perfect? No.
But it's what we have at this time.

 

[adk hunter]

Thanks guys, another thread unwatchable...

 

[Quicksilver338]

Those are just torture tests based on the false assumption that your scope should hold its zero . Your favorite hunting knife is going to fail a torture test. The guy has found a click niche. A gullible click niche. Look at all the long range kills on this forum and ask if they were prudent enough to check their zero or not. Even trained professional snipers know to check their zero. Mount your scope, check your zero, and know your true click value. If you drop your rifle don't be stupid enough to think you can just go ahead and take the shot. If this guy was legit he would go the extra step and explain exactly what is mechanically failing so the ignorant engineers can make a better scope, lol.

A knife is supposed to dull…there's no way around that. And I don't think the point of this whole test is to prevent people from checking zero, I check my nightforce 1-3 times a season. It's never been off, but I step on that mountain with confidence every time. That confidence is something a lot of people don't understand how valuable it is. The test is to show what scopes are prone to shift, and to provide you with information and you can run with it how you'd like. And you can't say it's gullible when hundreds of people have had experiences following forms findings…it's much higher than that but just hundreds strictly on the forums.

 

[Rosebud]

Use the test my wife came up with. Set your rifle with the scope mounted on it on the kitchen table setting on the bipod while your cleaning it. Go into the room you keep your cleaning supplies in. Then wait a minute for the crash. Rifle is knocked from the table onto a hard wooden chair then flips over and hits the rear eyepiece of the scope on the very hard tile floor. I can tell you now the a Leupold VX5HD ZL2 will not survive. Thank to Leupolds lifetime warranty services I had it back in three weeks.

 

[Darryle]

Only thing I doubt more than internet optics threads are campaign promises of fiscal responsibility from octogenarian politicians....

If elected, there will be a Nightforce in every.......uh..........crock pot

 

[cooperjd]

for my 40th birthday a few years ago my pops gave me his .300 weatherby. It was my favorite rifle he had, a beautiful early 80s mark V. It had a 1981 leupy vari-x III on it, you know, back when they were "good". This rifle hits hard at both ends, no brake.

Load development drove me crazy with that rifle. i would have a couple great shots, then a flier. hammers, barnes, factory ammo, didn't matter. The zero wasn't really shifting. I would have 2 shots touching and the 3rd would be 1-3" off. Let the barrel fully cool between shots, shoot 3 quickly, no matter what i tried the results were the same.

I finally broke down and removed the old scope and stuck one of my NF on it. whaddya know, all of a sudden the groups tightened down with the same loads i had previously tested, with no more fliers. crazy how that worked out....

 

[Phil Rizzo]

for my 40th birthday a few years ago my pops gave me his .300 weatherby. It was my favorite rifle he had, a beautiful early 80s mark V. It had a 1981 leupy vari-x III on it, you know, back when they were "good". This rifle hits hard at both ends, no brake.

Load development drove me crazy with that rifle. i would have a couple great shots, then a flier. hammers, barnes, factory ammo, didn't matter. The zero wasn't really shifting. I would have 2 shots touching and the 3rd would be 1-3" off. Let the barrel fully cool between shots, shoot 3 quickly, no matter what i tried the results were the same.

I finally broke down and removed the old scope and stuck one of my NF on it. whaddya know, all of a sudden the groups tightened down with the same loads i had previously tested, with no more fliers. crazy how that worked out....

Wish I could say I never had a bad Leupold.
One thing I learned later, you don't have to put up with that BS!

 

[cooperjd]

The sad part is that unless I had been exposed to the fact that scopes will randomly bounce around, I would've kept chasing my tail with loads thinking it was the recipe, rifle, or me. If one day it was 6" off that would've been a big clue, but it was "holding zero", the groups just kept opening up randomly.

I had the rifle professionally pillar bedded before I started tinkering, as it had the "weatherby wrist crack" and had that repaired as well. so i knew the stock/bedding was GTG.

I've had several nikons, leupolds, tascos, a couple vortex, and none of them "went bad" to my knowledge except for this one. Then again there were a lot of years growing up in TN that i shot at 100y a couple times a year, and went and sat in the tree. So would i notice a 1 or 2" shift? probably not. they all shot lung-moa. It wasn't until i moved out west and started reloading and shooting at extended ranges did this stuff become important enough for me to really pay attention to.

 

[sp6x6]

My father blew apart a Leupold 30 years ago on a 300 wby. I ended up with it , later I had one fog up slightly.I just hope my M5 is ok as I like the scope and don't want to deal with the hassle changing.But I don't have to adjust zero on my other scopes from fall to spring Friends shooting records in bench shoot NF,out to 2000 with a 338LAI,

 

[Paladin300]

Did anyone notice that he stated that he only torques to 18 ft lbs. If you read several of his post you will note that every scope he fails he never readjust his torque or talks about slippage however, on at least a few of the scopes he passes he readjusted the foot pounds to 20-22 and makes a note about scope slippage. If this is true he has somewhat invalidated his own test because each scope was not evaluated under the same criteria even if the data points were the same. An example of this is his evaluation of Leupold vs S&B. The S&B passed but he adjusted the ft lbs. The Lupy failed the truck test but there was no adjustment of ft lbs mentioned. I will not argue that S&B is not better than Luepold. I own both and have for 30 plus years. I have never had an issue with either company, both scopes just work. Several years ago I dropped a Luepold VX III 3.5-10x40 about 20 feet out of a tree, finished the hunt, put it in my truck and road it around for about a month before I got to the range to check it. It was off by a 1/2". In my opinions rings and the mounting system are far more important than the scope. I have never experienced some of the issues he cites. I have owned a half dozen S/Bs and countless Luepolds and never had an issue with any of them. Been hunting for forty years Seven states including Alaska and three countries. I am not saying there are not issues I have just never had one, but I have also never had to shoot any game beyond 400 yards. Maybe there in lies the issue. It is an interesting analysis and I like his approach but I think their are some flaws in his data collection. These are just my experiences and casual observations. My present LR set ups are running an S&B PM 2 5-25x56, Leupold Mark 6, Leupold Mark 5 5-25x56, 2 Athlon Cronus Gen 2s 4.5-29x56, and an Athlon Ares ETR 4.5-30x56. The ETR has been on a 338 improved for more than 5 or 6 years had over 800 roads through it and made numerous trips to the range and never lost zero and tracks perfectly to at least 1500 yards. Another interesting side not is that in the case of Athlon the ETR is built in the same factory as the SWFA scopes and the Cronus in the same factory as NF and Bushnell. How can the quality from one company to the next be so far off? I really don't think they are. The glass quality in all three brands mentioned above at least in their tier one scopes are negligible. The Mark 6 being in my opinion the worst. I have read countless test and evaluations of scopes and found that once you enter the tier one world you are really just splitting hairs, the exception to that rule being ZCO. In my opinion the examples I have seen and used they are just on another level, just can't bring myself to spend 4-5K on one. If you are shooting 2000 plus yards and tromping around the mountains of Afghanistan or shooting the king of 2 mile and making your living doing so and can afford them, get a S/B, NF, TT, or ZCO, short of that pick your poison and role with it! For 99% of LR hunting situations inside a 1000 yards any tier 1 scope will do and more than likely will never fail you unless you are prone to running over it with your truck before each hunt. In that case, get a NF or ZCO! JMO&Ts. The ravings of one old man who oft grows tired of the ****ing contest, ie. chevy vs ford vs Dodge vs Toyota). I have owned all of the above except Dodge and I favor Chevy/GMC though I presently drive a Ford I hate, manly because it ain't a Chevy. I am sure someone will disagree and cite some stat that proves their dodge is better. My point is shoot a good quality scope you can afford that has the features you need and learn it well, practice with it and I would be willing to bet you want miss often, if at all. In tier one scopes TT, ZCO, S&B, NF, Leupold, Vortex & Athlon all build quality products. Again get what you believe is the best you can afford and roll with it, practice with it and go hunt, confidence is 90% of the battle. If you think you'll miss, you'll miss every time and it will probably not be the scopes fault! Just saying! Stay safe and enjoy the thrill of the hunt my friends. I've killed more deer with a 30/30 win or a 1980's Rem 700 CDL 270 with a 25 year old Leupold VX III than I probably ever will with my Uber custom could of bought a new truck for what I paid for them specialty rifles, doesn't mean I don't like them, just the facts from my vantage point. One final rant and observation! Their is not a $500 Dollar scope on the planet that will compare to a tier 1 optic!

 

[WeiserBucks]

One final rant and observation! Their is not a $500 Dollar scope on the planet that will compare to a tier 1 optic!

If you believe Form's test results, SWFA passed and TT failed.

 

[flyguy1]

I know the Form guy is supposed to be some sort of guru over on RS, and I have read some of his tests. However he needs to talk to someone who actually knows how to do testing, like an engineer who does product tests.

1. His testing isn't blinded. We've known for decades that operator bias CANNOT be overcome. That's why there are double-blind studies. So, scopes are all disguised as to brand. So, someone else drops the rifle (or doesn't), the one operating the hydraulic trigger puller on the machine rest (like a Hyscore) has no idea whether it was dropped or not. Then compare dropped to undropped. Repeat many times, standard deviation and all that, just like your chronograph.
2. Mounting is done by someone not involved in the testing process. Choose whatever rings you wish. Torque them all to specs. Measure for scope slippage in rings after each test cycle.
3. Uniform drop test; his aren't. Easy enough to design a uniform medium into which to drop, and a rail system to guide rifle so that each scope strikes the same.

Other than buying a machine rest, almost no cost involved in this.

 

[Paladin300]

If you believe Form's test results, SWFA passed and TT failed.

That is a big if! My first long range scope was an SWFA fixed 10 power. Have you ever looked through the glass of a SWFA compared to a TT, ZCO, S&B or any of the others mentioned. SWFA is great to about 600 yards and then you might as well be shooting through a waterfall. Granted their is more to shooting long range than glass and SWFA builds some quality products that have been used for decades. However, if you can't see it you can't shoot it! I personally think TT is a little overrated and if spending that much coin would choose ZCO. To my eye the ZCO is just slightly brighter and clearer. However neither of them offer me enough to choose them over say a NF for half the price.

 

[manitou]

That is a big if! My first long range scope was an SWFA fixed 10 power. Have you ever looked through the glass of a SWFA compared to a TT, ZCO, S&B or any of the others mentioned. SWFA is great to about 600 yards and then you might as well be shooting through a waterfall. Granted their is more to shooting long range than glass and SWFA builds some quality products that have been used for decades. However, if you can't see it you can't shoot it! I personally think TT is a little overrated and if spending that much coin would choose ZCO. To my eye the ZCO is just slightly brighter and clearer. However neither of them offer me enough to choose them over say a NF for half the price.

We all know glass clarity and definition are what make a scope rtz and maintain tracking.