Scope field evaluations on rokslide

[quigley257]

Simmons had an interesting design to support the erector tube, patented I believe, that was claimed to make those scopes with that feature very robust.

I don't know how true that is for that design, but some of their shotgun scopes had a big following with slug gun hunters for service life.

Back in the day, Simmons Gold Medal handgun scopes were the only scope endorsed by JD Jones for use on his hand cannons. I have two of the 2-7x28 Gold Medals and they have been flawless through many years and many thousands of rounds fired. While I don't consider it a cannon, my 15" Encore in 308 Winchester has worn a Simmons Gold Medal since I bought it new in 1999 and is still reliable as day one.

 

[quigley257]

When your horse falls it always falls toward the rifle and scabbard...at least in New Mexico they do.

Lol! I recently replaced a "horse barrel" for a customer. I don't recall if he was from New Mexico...

 

[Buckys]

I have and I will get to test the theory this weekend.

So have I, although I have not made it past the first 10 or 20,000 sentences yet, lol.

I like what he's doing. But that is one forum that really needs a reader's digest version cross-linked to the details for each of the bullet points.

Good luck with the 280AI Darryle, I feel your pain

 

[sika64]

I'm curious which Simmons scopes you guys have. And if they have that design feature.

Aetec, I believe it was their top of the line model then. I dropped mine and got a hell of a ding in the bell and then shot a sika stag at 451 yards the same morning.

 

[cooperjd]

This is from another post on mounting optics by Form over on RS. This will give a tiny insight as to the volume of testing done. So even though the test eval's have started, keep in mind that on some of these optics with "one test", that is one test posted. If you go into the Q&A's of each scope you will see some of them Form discusses seeing the same behavior over lots and lots of samples.

Here is the relevant part of this thread:

Scope mounting to maintain zero

After multiple requests for an explanation of how to mount a scope in order to have the lowest possibility of loss of zero, a discussion of a scope mounting video, and the latest thread about scope bases and action screw coming loose, I took some pics of what I do with a rifle when I get it and...

rokslide.com

The background quote by Form:
"To start- a bit of background of why I say what I say.

I am a backpack hunter. What I write below is tailored to hunting.

Having sid that, I work at a place that fires a lot of ammo. I see over half a million rounds a year on average get fired. 90% of those rounds are tracked. Weapon zeros are checked nearly daily, scopes, mounts, rifles, ammo, etc, are being tested constantly. If a rifle has even a .5 MOA shift in zero we will see it almost immediately. My thoughts are this- scopes are an aiming device. They are a container to hold my reticle so that I can hit targets. I do not care about scratches, dings, or ring marks. I do care that the bullets go where the crosshairs are pointed. My first requirment is that the rifle stays zeroed through use. To do that the mounts, rings, and action screws can not come loose...."

 

[Quicksilver338]

This is from another post on mounting optics by Form over on RS. This will give a tiny insight as to the volume of testing done. So even though the test eval's have started, keep in mind that on some of these optics with "one test", that is one test posted. If you go into the Q&A's of each scope you will see some of them Form discusses seeing the same behavior over lots and lots of samples.

Here is the relevant part of this thread:

Scope mounting to maintain zero

After multiple requests for an explanation of how to mount a scope in order to have the lowest possibility of loss of zero, a discussion of a scope mounting video, and the latest thread about scope bases and action screw coming loose, I took some pics of what I do with a rifle when I get it and...

rokslide.com

The background quote by Form:
"To start- a bit of background of why I say what I say.

I am a backpack hunter. What I write below is tailored to hunting.

Having sid that, I work at a place that fires a lot of ammo. I see over half a million rounds a year on average get fired. 90% of those rounds are tracked. Weapon zeros are checked nearly daily, scopes, mounts, rifles, ammo, etc, are being tested constantly. If a rifle has even a .5 MOA shift in zero we will see it almost immediately. My thoughts are this- scopes are an aiming device. They are a container to hold my reticle so that I can hit targets. I do not care about scratches, dings, or ring marks. I do care that the bullets go where the crosshairs are pointed. My first requirment is that the rifle stays zeroed through use. To do that the mounts, rings, and action screws can not come loose...."

So….what aiming devices do you guys use and what have you seen work not so well?

 

[Paladin300]

I am going to put my foot in it this morning! Mainly because I think there are a few arm chair QBs on here that don't know dog turds from twinkies! It is interesting to me that the same ones who talk about their Uber ultralight 5lbs rifle are the same ones arguing that they shoot a 3lbs NF Atacr??? When we are talking about NF reliability we are talking about the 5-25 Atacr, not the NXS, NX8, and for sure not the SHV. That scope is built for military applications as well as the 7-32 Leupold. Their heavy for a reason. In military grade optics their are three companies in the US that dominate the Market, NF, Leupold and S&B. The scopes are the PMII, Atacr, Mark 6 & 8 (these are now discontinued). Everyone of those are heavy and tough as nails. The ZCO is like Kahles and NF had a baby and the TT was a ground up development originally known as premier. I would throw the Vortex Razor and Mark 5 7-32 in that same mix. Those are really the best with the best support, but are any of them really practical for hunting application? There is a reason we have scopes like the Razor LHT and VX5 HTMR.

To show that different models from the same manufacturer can have varying reviews take the case of Kahles. The 5-25 is considered by some to be one of the best in the business, the 6-24 not so much or vise versa, but you get my point! Be careful bashing a brand because they produced one bad apple, by the same token beware of brand loyalty as well.

There are guys that show up at camp all the time with their Uber light ultra custom 7mm Uber mag mags and all the goods punch 5 pills through a single hole at a hundred and miss a give me buck at 400. Why? There dope was off. The rifle was to light for them to handle under stress. They miss judged the wind by 5-10 mph. And the conditions on the mountain were slightly different then those at camp. Add in fatigue if it has been a long day and bam! You got the recipe for a miss! News flash it wasn't the optic you chose it was the dope on the end of the rope!

Now consider the guy who only owns one gun, say an 06? It's an old 700 or M70 with a 30 year old Bushnell. Banged it all over the country and he never misses. It ain't the gun! Most guides will tell you they would rather have that guys show up any time over the other. You know why he is so successful. He knows and trust his equipment and he practices with it. Confidence and skill are 90% of the game, the equipment is the other 10.

Different scopes are built for different applications and the best for a particular application vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Pick the one that best suits your application, learn it and go hunt!

I like the tests and love to read the data. It's fun and interesting because for ever one that places one at the top another places someone else. I tend to rely on my experience and what the pros use as well as consumer reports, but I keep come back to the tried and true. Have a great day friends!

 

[Paladin300]

Another thing is kind of eating me this morning! Who the heck goes around intentionally beating the crap out of their $3500 optic?

 

[Small Lady]

Another thing is kind of eating me this morning! Who the heck goes around intentionally beating the crap out of their $3500 optic?

Idiots!

 

[4th_point]

Aetec, I believe it was their top of the line model then. I dropped mine and got a hell of a ding in the bell and then shot a sika stag at 451 yards the same morning.

Thanks for the reply. Seemed like a pretty hard impact!

 

[Barrelnut]

I'm curious which Simmons scopes you guys have. And if they have that design feature.

Mine is a 3-10x44 MAG Model 1044 made in Japan. Bought it in 1986. Simmons company was started in 1983, I believe.
The older ones had the quality you would expect from good Japanese optics. At some point they moved production to the Philippines and when Bushnell bought them they moved it to China. So their quality suffered a bit over the years to meet lower price points.

 

[sika64]

Thanks for the reply. Seemed like a pretty hard impact!

Actually it was from the top of the bedrail on my truck and hit the hitch on the way down. It was in the dark and my buddy had no idea I had set it up there when he went to open the tailgate

 

[4th_point]

Hell Frank at snipershide quit doing tracking logs and publishing them, Alex wheeler quit with the recoil retention.

Screw it, let's attack all of them until they stop trying to make things better and we can go back to smacking our leupold with a screwdriver and crossing our fingers when we adjust windage

+1

I'm sure some members here already know this, but there's a fairly well known rifle builder that stopped using a certain brand of scope for post-assembly shooting evaluation. No impacts, drops, etc. Just poor zero retention which makes evaluation of rifle quality difficult!

 

[4th_point]

Mine is a 3-10x44 MAG Model 1044 made in Japan. Bought it in 1986. Simmons company was started in 1983, I believe.

Thanks for the info!