Scope field evaluations on rokslide

[sp6x6]

EHH? couldn't help myself my mom was canook

 

[MostlyUselessLurker]

A friend of mine is a guide, he uses a Leupold, was one of the many who recommended Leupold to me.
Texted him this evening, asked if he knew what brand of scopes are used by any other guides he knows. His response, was Leupold, except for one who uses a Zeiss.

It might be fun to email some of the scope makers, asking if they would be willing to donate to me a scope. If any do send me a scope, take them and do some of my own testing. Its probably a long shot that many, or any, would donate scopes to me, but would be fun if they did.

1. Could push each scope of the edge of my table onto the floor, sideways, and end 1st.
2. Throw each of them 5 times as hard as i can into the field.
3. Fill my sink full of water, and put them in there for an hour.
4. Put them all on the rear rack of my ATV, put 2 rubber snap straps over them, to hold them on, then leave them there for a week as I go about my work. That Should subject them to lots of vibration, and bumps.
Then mount, and shoot them, groups of 5 shots at each of 100, 300, and 600 yards, to see if their settings will still work.
Does that sound like a good test?

You should try that with your new VX5HD since you have so much confidence in it. Then you can let us all know how the customer service experience is when you send it in for repairs.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I'd get those guides to test theirs at the same time.
But don't wait too long after hunting season.
The factory may need a while to complete repairs on that many units.

About 25 yrs ago they simply mailed a replacement, no questions asked. I haven't owned one or tapped a turret with a smoking case in a long time.

 

[Small Lady]

How are you going to establish protocols, what will be your control?

Shoot them all first, and make sure their dials work to adjust them. See if they group as well after as before.
If they are not able to adjust exactly the same after at 300 and 600 yards, something inside broke.
Its not perfect I admit, but I don't have 20 identical rifles to mount them all up on. But if I use my Browning 243 when i get it, at least the gun will be a constant factor.

 

[Small Lady]

You should try that with your new VX5HD since you have so much confidence in it. Then you can let us all know how the customer service experience is when you send it in for repairs.

My Leupold has a lot of days in the scabbard on horse and quad, it doesn't make it go weird.
Also pickup truck rides, jet boating, me carrying it around, still perfect.
I laugh and laugh at people who say a simple car ride will mess up a Leupold.
I drive my pickup on things that many people would not even call roads. Beat my ATV over terrain that makes most people I take out for a quad ride gasp, and ask me if I'm sure going there is a good idea. Sam, my horse, we go almost everywhere, and even days and days on him, no effect.

 

[willfrye027]

Clearly many of you have not read beyond the first sentence or two on the Rokslide thread.

It's not so much about a scope withstanding "torture tests"…it's about it HOLDING ZERO. If you're killing whitetails at 75 yards, a little shift here and there is not going to make or break the hunt. If you're killing beyond 500 yards, it will.

For those that are so confident in their favorite scope…try gently dropping it from 6-8 inches onto something soft. Compare where your bullet impacts before and after. It may surprise you.

Better yet, do this but just let it ride in the back seat of your truck down a washboard road.

So many scopes just cannot stay zeroed through minor bumps and bruises..even just traveling in a case. from $100 vortex's to $1500 leupys and everything in between. It's a shame we let the optics industry keep selling us junk.

 

[Darryle]

Clearly many of you have not read beyond the first sentence or two on the Rokslide thread.

I have and I will get to test the theory this weekend.

I have done the multiple day, multiple trip one shot zero verification. 1 shot on multiple days, multiple trips to the range and in temperatures from well over 100º to down to 33º.

I knocked my rifle over while trying to get the garden hoe out of the back of the truck to kill a rattlesnake on Thanksgiving day. I had leaned it up against the side of the truck planning to case it but the extra effort required to get to the hoe dislodged from the chains and extension cords actually dislodged the rifle from the gap between the taillight and bed and when I came back after killing said snake and cutting off it's rattles, there was my 280 Ackley laying on the rock strewn ranch road. I was actually a little sick. It has never lost zero in multiple trips to the deer lease, piled in the back of the truck in a soft case with other rifles, trips across the ranch from one side to the other in a Ranger, un-cased, loaded, strung across my shoulders for the 930yd walk to the stand, 930yds back, unloaded, re-cased and then tossed into the back of the truck for the washboard ride back to camp.

It's similar to one of Form's tests and honestly, I had time to check it out while still at the lease over the weekend, just didn't think it was necessary since I have complete faith in the system. Now I get to "know" if my faith is valid.

We'll see.

 

[Darryle]

We tend to throw shade at ideas we don't need or ideas we so no merit in. Take this thread, the 223 threads and the 6.5 thread on the Slide and combine them, now look at our thoughts on each. We either think they have value or we think they are ridiculous, no gray area for most, myself included.

When the Creedmoor came out, it was a very accurate and capable cartridge out to distances most people should not be shooting. Because it took your average range bum from 200yds to 600yds, it started seeing a lot of use in the field. We also saw a huge increase in wounded/lost game, ridiculous shots on game on video and a ton of criticism from the "no replacement for displacement" crowd. Now factor in how poorly the original bullet offering was in the ELD line and how much of that "Creedmoor" criticism was warranted. While that original bullet was extremely accurate, it performed poorly with erratic results.

Now there is not much criticism for the 6.5 Creedmoor on long range game because bullet construction has made leaps and bounds since it's introduction.

That construction technology has filtered down into the micro calibers and into our optics. Chinese made scopes at the turn of the century were set and forget, tap, tap, tap to get a zero, now leave it alone. Today, there are many Chinese produced scopes that handle being twisted and return to zero, how they handle treatment is another issue.

Technology is the driver behind our faith, we all trust something and like ex wives, until that trust is thoroughly destroyed, we blindly march along banging our drum, while everyone at home is screaming at the TV.

It takes an upclose and personal failure to open our eyes and see the value in what others have learned.

You learn from being stupid, and I have learned a lot over the years.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I've been following Form for a couple years. I like what he is doing. The test protocol may not be perfect, but it seems reasonably consistent. Oddly, he has a very high failure rate.

I was at an NRA show, last time it was in IN. While Nightforce was banging an optic loudly on a steel plate in the background and retesting it as a demo, I spoke to another optic maker about these tests. My point was simply that this is a valid use case and you should get ahead of this by showing what punishment your optics can take. The guy literally goes off on me about how these tests are unrepeatable, unrealistic and just stupid. He simply went so far as to claim he knows Form is paid for those reviews by the winners! I simply said, so you have never fallen in the field in your life? You don't fly? He kept pushing how a good owner always checks zero after an incident. Sadly, I lost a lot of respect that day.

What is crazy about this is falling is real. I fell once and the optic remained zeroed. Also, with the half decent optics I run, I don't need to rezero after hunting or after flying, even though I do check. So, my experience does not align to most optics cannot hold zero over a forest service road.

I find it odd that companies who report their products as shockproof refuse to prove it under real conditions. I also see it as a huge opportunity to get ahead of this and show your optics achieve x,y, or z. I don't even care if I bought optics yesterday that cannot sustain a 2" fall onto a pillow! I just want a test with a number that I can use to spend my money better next time.

Actually, I find optics sales as smoke and mirrors. The companies surely are using optical data internally to define good at a price point and also to confirm shipping conditions. They cannot just design these things and look through the and pull a price out of the air….then trust some one else to give it the old calibrated eyeball to ship.

Personally I believe this all to be a huge coverup by the optics makers that allow them to use subpar lower quality parts in expensive optics, then back them with a warranty that customers think is great. Well, if I make a scope for $100, sell it for $500, I can afford to give away a lot of warranty replacements. Where most products are $250-$300 to make for a $500 sales price.

Can you believe we spend $2000-$5000 on things we cannot objectively state a performance spec for clarity or holding zero? Imagine buying a car and your buddy asks how much power does it have….and your answer was….good…well they don't say. I guess they didn't want to tell me. They did show me I paid twice as much as your car, so it must be more good'r, right?

 

[4th_point]

I think the rings are cold welded to it as well.

Simmons had an interesting design to support the erector tube, patented I believe, that was claimed to make those scopes with that feature very robust.

I don't know how true that is for that design, but some of their shotgun scopes had a big following with slug gun hunters for service life.

 

[sika64]

Can't do that though, then how would he be able to rig it for his nightforce scope to win?

The bias is strong in him.
So strong it's a huge turn off to some people.
I'll never ever buy a nightmare scope, just because of the video history of his cool aid drinking.
I'm more likely to believe the experiences of the people who I know, and talk to in person regularly.
All of them swear by Leupold, because they just work well, and don't need a cult members club.

Sounds like a Leupold cult club lol

 

[sika64]

I have a Simmons scope I bought in 1986. It hasn't lost zero in over 35 years and spent most of those years on a 7 RM. It's from back in the days when they were made in Japan. Just sayin...

I have one as well, was on my 270 wsm for a few years then went onto my 50cal encore. Scope is 22 years old and never lost on either. Still have it on my original Encore barrel incase I have to use it for a backup to my smokeless barrel.

 

[4th_point]

I'm curious which Simmons scopes you guys have. And if they have that design feature.

 

[TxHeartShot]

You use a scabbard on a horse, trust me, you will see failure. That is pretty harse treatment compared to riding in the the back of a vehicle in a case. A horse doesn't care about rifles or Optics, they care aabout footing and they don't care what they have to do to be where they want to be.

What mounting system did you use on your rifle?

When your horse falls it always falls toward the rifle and scabbard...at least in New Mexico they do.