Savage 111 LRH 6.5-284 Loading Questions

[Greyfox]

I have one more hought on what could be causing he bergers to shoot weird in his gun. You guys who are having great success can tell me if this will cause my problem. Normally on my guns i will neck size and full lngth size every 3 loading to bump shoulders back. My LRH has a very tight chamber. So tight in fact that if I measure a fired case on a headspace comparator, the full length size it and cam over hard to make sure it was sized completely. The headspace will measure the same. I notice while chambering cases that some fit tighter than others. So being that I'm not bumping the shoulders because the chamber is so tight and some fit tighter on closing. I know this can cause pressure differences. Do you think it could cause the erratic behavior of my bergers???

I have a 260 Savage LRP that has a tight chamber. If the reloaded round is only a moderate tightness it doesn't make a difference. If it is very tight when closing the bolt I see a fall off in accuracy indicating a negative effect on my load. Accuracy requirements for this rifle is pretty demanding since I use it for 300 yard competitive egg shoots.

 

[ShootnMathews]

So do you think I should trim a little off the die base to get it to bump the shoulder back??

 

[BrentM]

I can not neck size only. I body size every reload now. For example my fired case will be right at 1.840. If I fire it 2x without body sizing it will be 1.841 and tight. I bump back with a Redding body die on a RCBS press.

You might have mentioned it but when I set my body die it has to make contact and cam over decently tight. I press the case in 1x and then again for a 2x body size run on each case. Cases then measure 1.837 to 1.838.

My buddy has a 260 and used CCI primers on it. He could not get this rifle to settle down until he tried Federal 210M. It shoots .3 MOA at 2810 with 140 berger and a 26" barrel.

I wish I knew more about the volume dynamics of case chambers, neck tension, etc etc etc. My non-fired nosler cases with 56.5 retumbo, 140 vld at .050, and Magnum primers shoots bugholes. 1x plus fire formed cases the group opens up to about .1 MOAand pressure is high on the cases. Flat primers, firm bolt lift. I found now if I run .005 to .006 I can get .3 to .5 MOA but again, too much pressure. If I run a Large Rifle primer pressure is a bit less and accuracy is about the same at .45. I confirmed drop this weekend and it appears 3015 gets me to 975 yards just about right. My group was showing to be 6". I didn't measure it. I shot at a clay and used 3050 for my first group and the clusterd just under the clay about 6" low. Adjusted for FPS correction and was dead on.

I think you should go back through your cases and ensure they are all the same in every way. Body size to at least .002 bump and do whatever you have to do, as get a different shell holder etc to give yourself the space you need. The option is to loosen your barrel and re-set the barrel. I did this on my short action rifle I put the old barrel on. Put .001 more into it. It has 1400-1500 rounds through it, a worn throat and still shoot .5-.75 MOA. At 975 yards it shoots a consistent group. 2900 fps gets it on target consistently. .100 off the lands. 56.5 retumbo. Federal 210m. .002 neck tension. Lapau brass.

My new barrel CBTO/COAL on a 140 berger is 2.490. I am seating to 2.484.
Old barrel is 2.590. Seating to 2.490.

The difference in these is savage cut the chamber on the old barrel and my gunsmith did the new one. The new one was cut to seat bullets close to the lands. I can not go .100 on this chamber due to compressing the hell out of the powder. I am not convinced I like this chamber cut yet.

 

[Greyfox]

So do you think I should trim a little off the die base to get it to bump the shoulder back??

That should work. I ended up using a separate case sizing dye to accomplish the same thing with my 260 and it worked well. Just make sure your case is well lubed if it a FL dye.

 

[biggdawg]

I would get the redding competition shellholder kit like this one redding competition shellholders

before i messed with the die, these things really work.

 

[biggdawg]

I forgot to add that they really made my sizing more consistent

 

[BrentM]

I would get the redding competition shellholder kit like this one redding competition shellholders

before i messed with the die, these things really work.

Will these work with RCBS press?

 

[biggdawg]

Will these work with RCBS press?

they work with all presses. single stage that is

they are just shell holders but they are machined so that you can just change the shell holder to adjust your head space.

just follow the instructions and they work great.

 

[Greyfox]

Will these work with RCBS press?

They do work bit you have to make sure that the deepest setting in the set allows you to seat your case deeper. The issue I had was that the lowest holder was the same as the holder I was using. The rest of the holders in the set reduced the amount of sizing.

 

[JoeS1044]

Hello guys I figured I stop by and talk in this forum since I bought a Savage LRH in 6.5x284 about a month or so ago. I finally got to shoot some handloads today and here were my best groups

I am using 46.2 and 46.7 grains of IMR 4831 powder with the 140vlds seated at an OAL of 3.175

The tightest grouping was the 46.7 grains in the first picture. Outside to Outside of the group was .943 and point of impact was .679 I know this gun will shoot better because it was shooting factory nosler accubonds better. I think I need to adjust the seating depth to help shrink up that grouping. Do you recommend going lower or higher on the depth from my original OAL? I thought of even trying a few rounds at the recommended seating depth of 3.228 that berger suggests. This is my first time loading bergers and I'm really having a pain.

Thanks for any answers

Joe

 

[BrentM]

Well, of course you need to adjust seating depth, that is just one of the major critical components, some argue the most, to get the best accuracy. Also, measuring COAL is worthless to me, unless your COAL is a bullet seated in the lands of the barrel and your starting point. Otherwise, it means nothing regarding the the throat of your barrel and the seating depth of your bullets.

I have 3 barrels with 3 different COAL measuresments to the lands. However, I also don't measure COAL, from case base to bullet tip. I measure Case Base to Ogive using a hornady tool.

OK, on another note. Shootingmathews- if you have not done this it might be time you try it. Measure all your cases and sort by 1 grain differences. For example I sorted my brass from 194 to 195 grains and 193 to 194 for this last batch of nosler brass. I keep them separated. This is all done after trimming etc, no primers. Then sort your bullets by .1 grains. In my last batch of Bergers they went from 139.8 to 140. A few are 139.8 and I use them to get on paper or test pressure. For groups I shoot the same weight brass and bullets. Just a thought. If you want to get to the next level measure bearing surface of each lot of bullets. I had a lot once that had .030 difference in a box of 100. That is horrible quality control. It was a box of target bullets so I didn't care really but the difference in bullet performance is surprising with that much bearing surface difference.

 

[ShootnMathews]

Ok guys. I have a ? On base to shoulder length. I mentioned before that my full length die did not bump the shoulder at all. Well I decided to try again. This time I dropped the die down a turn to make sure I was camming over tight on it. I measured a case with a headspace comparator, ran it through the die and measured again. Then did a second case the same way. On both cases I got a bump of .0025". Do you think that is enough?? I chambered both pieces of brass and they chambered easily. Neither had the snugness that the bolt did before the bump.

Brent.
I usually do not sort brass by weight and get close enough results for my needs on most rifles. I believe this caliber or rifle may be more picky than I'm used to. If you think the .0025 bump I achieved is enough I will weight sort my brass after I bump a bunch of the shoulders back and see what I come up with. Ill load a group at what I hought was going to shoot well the other day and see what it does.

 

[Greyfox]

Ok guys. I have a ? On base to shoulder length. I mentioned before that my full length die did not bump the shoulder at all. Well I decided to try again. This time I dropped the die down a turn to make sure I was camming over tight on it. I measured a case with a headspace comparator, ran it through the die and measured again. Then did a second case the same way. On both cases I got a bump of .0025". Do you think that is enough?? I chambered both pieces of brass and they chambered easily. Neither had the snugness that the bolt did before the bump.

Brent.
I usually do not sort brass by weight and get close enough results for my needs on most rifles. I believe this caliber or rifle may be more picky than I'm used to. If you think the .0025 bump I achieved is enough I will weight sort my brass after I bump a bunch of the shoulders back and see what I come up with. Ill load a group at what I hought was going to shoot well the other day and see what it does.

I bump my brass about .001- .002" and it works well. You should be fine.

 

[BrentM]

Yeah I think that is fine too. Give it a go.