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Savage 111 LRH 6.5-284 Loading Questions

I talked to one of the guys at Berger about my rifle and he assured me that I had just not found the jump my rifle liked. He said I should continue seating depth tests out to .200" jump. I believe last time I stopped at .1" jump because most told me they were getting good results at less jump. I may load a few groups at .120 and .160 jump just to see what happens.

Another thing I wondered about was my seating stem. I have just the plain stem that comes in the die. Should I have ordered a VLD seating stem from redding?? I am pretty sure that the bullets do not bottom out in the stem but could it be causing another problem that I don't see. I do not have a concentricity gage to check runout with. Is it plausible that my regular stem is seating them with too much runout?
 
I talked to one of the guys at Berger about my rifle and he assured me that I had just not found the jump my rifle liked. He said I should continue seating depth tests out to .200" jump. I believe last time I stopped at .1" jump because most told me they were getting good results at less jump. I may load a few groups at .120 and .160 jump just to see what happens.

Another thing I wondered about was my seating stem. I have just the plain stem that comes in the die. Should I have ordered a VLD seating stem from redding?? I am pretty sure that the bullets do not bottom out in the stem but could it be causing another problem that I don't see. I do not have a concentricity gage to check runout with. Is it plausible that my regular stem is seating them with too much runout?



I have seen as little as .003 change in seating depth make a big difference. just an fyi, when testing if you are taking too big of steps you may jump over the node.

here is an example from my 300 win mag seat test with the 200lrx

 
I will agree with that on most bullets but Berger claims the VLD has a sweet spot of .030-.040". And they recommend moving in .030" depths to find this spot quickly. In fact the noslers that I'm shooting in it at the moment seem to be very jump sensitive in depth. I moved it .005" at a time to get it just right.
 
Sorry to interrupt the seating depth question but I just got the 111LRH 6.5 284 and ordered Lapua brass.
How is the quality of the brass ?
Did anyone feel the need to (skim) turn the necks and into the shoulder to prevent donuts? Or simply no brass prep at all besides trim and chamfer?
 
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The lapua is good brass. I always FL size new brass just to make sure there is no fit issues. Then trim and chamfer. I thought I was getting loose primer pockets. Turned out I just had some primers that were fractionally smaller.
 
Sorry to interrupt the seating depth question but I just got the 111LRH 6.5 284 and ordered Lapua brass.
How is the quality of the brass ?
Did anyone feel the need to (skim) turn the necks and into the shoulder to prevent donuts? Or simply no brass prep at all besides trim and chamfer?

Brass prep is no necessary except for fore forming. It's top quality.
 
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but not sure how else to write this: It is waste of time to not try the berger depth test until you find a solid accuracy node. I am not saying their test is the best but since the beginning of this entire thread this has been mentioned repeatedly. I can probably find half a dozen posts where I have said to try x y z. Some people get way too hung up on some notion that .000 to .005 is magic and that something else must be wrong for it to not work.

My newest barrel seems to be happy at .005. This one is chambered with a shallow throat unlike the stock savage barrels. All of my other stock savages like .075 to .100. In fact I put my old 6.5-284 barrel on a short action for my brother to use at the Vortex Extreme Challenge. I set the head space a little loose to use the brass fired from a different rifle. It still shot .5 MOA at .100, 56.5 retumbo, federal 210M. This is on a tupperware factory stock as well.

Lapau brass. I just got in a new lot of brass. I weighed it all and so far only about 15 cases were outside of the 1 grain tolerance. I still prep lapau brass. Resize body and neck size for uniform tension, trim to length to square up neck, then debur primer flash hole and shape, camfer neck and they are done.
 
Brent
Ive read this a couple times and I don't think I understand what you are saying. you might be saying that i'm wasting my time doing a seating depth test until I find a powder charge that shoots fair. Well I think I have already done that. Twice actually, with Retumb 56.2grains and with H 4831sc 52.7grains. I just can't get it to shoot consistently. Jamming them made it consistent but they got knocked out of concentricity too easily and then the group opened up progressively the more I carried the rounds around.

but Im still not sure what you were trying to say in that last post.
 
Sorry Brent. I'm open to suggestions. I'd love to get this thing to shoot the bergers well while seated deep enough to be hunting worthy. I've tried everything you and greyfox have suggested. I may just have to set the jump at like .100" and do a ladder test there. Maybe the test at less jump are no good. Idk.
 
Sorry Brent. I'm open to suggestions. I'd love to get this thing to shoot the bergers well while seated deep enough to be hunting worthy. I've tried everything you and greyfox have suggested. I may just have to set the jump at like .100" and do a ladder test there. Maybe the test at less jump are no good. Idk.

You are sort of on the right track, but going about it incorrectly in my opinion. Now some people don't like my opinion so I guess that is where you have to decide if you wish to try my suggestions or not. If so, do this:

1. Measure CBTO (case base to ogive) on your berger seated to the lands of your barrel. USE A HORNADY OAL guage. Don't measure bullet tips.
* if the bullet is seated deep enough into the throat of the case to sufficiently hold the bullet you can test from the bullet seated to the lands. If there is not enough bullet in the case neck you are risking bullet tension and alignment issues.
For Example: I have 1 rifle that measures CBTO at 2.590. The other measures 2.490. These 2 rifles have a starting point that is .100 different. The 2.490 rifle will allow seating to the lands as the bullet base is at the bottom of the case neck and shoulder junction. The other rifle with the 2.590 has the bullet seated shallow in the neck and I don't like it so it is not an option for me.

2. Safe powder charge identified.

3. Seating depth test. .010 or .015, .025, .050, .075, .100, .125, .150. or follow bergers recommendations. I like mine a little better but I have done both back to back. USE A HORNADY OAL GUAGE Some people load up 3-4 rounds of each depth and head to the range.

4. Shoot these round robin style or however you want but be consistent and be direct about your approach. Document the shots, write it down, take pictures, be OCD about this. Take your time and think it all through. You are going to be shooting 20-30 rounds and each one counts so you can spend you time working on the accuracy node instead of seating depths.

5. You may need to tweak the powder slightly or even go +- .005 seating to get better results at a good depth. But you should be pretty close.


*** Unless you have done a good solid across the board seating depth test I personally think you are chasing your tail. If you get .5 MOA accuracy you may just have to settle with it and not be expecting bug holes at 200 yards. I have about 200 rounds through my new schneider and it seems to have settled into .5 MOA with Nosler brass that was fire formed. I just bought new lapau as I have had better experience with it and it seems to hold pressure better. You can drive youself crazy with all this stuff if you are not methodical about the approach.

Let me know if this made sense at all.
 
Brent.
Makes perfect sense to me. So far I have done everything on there. Only difference is I stopped at .100" jump. But maybe my gun will like more than that. Originally when I bought the gun I measured wrong and was seating the bullets with .230" jump (after I figured out that I messed up) and was shooting sub Moa at that jump. So maybe .100 + is where I need to test.

Thanks for the help
 
Well I tried the bergers some more. Moved out to .1225" jump. My target was .120 but I overshot some. Out of every 3 shot group, it still put 2 shots cutting holes and one flier. Except for one group and I think that was fluke at .48". I moved powder charge up and down slightly thinking the flier may pull in tighter and the flier moved higher and lower but maintained same distance from group. But I believe at .75 average these groups were smaller than at .100" jump in the past. I think I'll load a group at .140" jump and see how those go.

From my phone pics always rotate funny. Writing is in proper orientation.
 

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