As a team member who had been part of the management staff for the US Biathlon team the powder in the 22 lr ammo the US team was using caused condensation in the barrel , which then froze in the temperatures of the matches which caused accuracy problems. Then they noticed that the Russians didn't have that problem and when analyzed it came down to the powder they used did not cause condensation issues !
Rifles in the rain *important*
- Thread starter elkaholic
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elkaholic
Well-Known Member
I do not know if this has happened with other powders or not, but I am not sure I have ever shot at long range with a wet barrel? If I said I was using RL26 when this happened; that was incorrect. I use a lot of RL26 but this load was H1000....Rich
codyadams
Well-Known Member
I put electrical tape over my barrel, pressed firmly on the crown, and while hunting I have a round in the chamber, so the barrel is completely enclosed. I have gone out and shot long range when it was raining heavy, and never had issues, retaping after every shot, as I was concerned with POI change at range, and even at 700 yards, my dope was right on. It sucked laying down on my range blanket and trying to keep everything covered while shooting, but I did figure out that I can count on my shot being on, and I almost got to test it out on an animal this year, we had a 6x6 at 1130 yards opening day while it was snowing a very wet heavy snow, but he simply didn't give us the time to get a comfortable shot before he walked into the timber. That's unfortunate you didn't get your bull, hopefully next year!!
Prevention is the path of least resistance. We have many theories. Too many to test.
Keep the bore and chamber dry. If they get wet, clean and fire a fouling shot. Preferably in a manner that allows POI verification.
If carbon is the suspect, remove carbon fouling with KG-1 or an equivalent carbon remover prior to final bore fouling, POI verification, and hunt.
If I have water in my bore, I'd fire a round to dry the bore if no other means of cleaning is available. Can be fired in the middle of the night. Or if the animal is 800 or more yards away, burn one into the ground prior to engagement.
I try to keep EVERYTHING identical to the conditions at the time I last fired/fouled the bore, and verified zero, to the extent possible.
I verify my POI after arriving in camp. We arrive a day or two early, and verify every rifle's POI. After every precaution, I'll still get burned on the long range shots every now and then. At long range, the longer the time that's transpired between my last POI verification and the shot on game, the less confidence I have that I won't experience a disappointment.
It's much easier to hit the bullseye immediately after zeroing my rifle, than after a couple days afield. I try to get it all right preparation wise. But it's most common for me to have to tweak my turrets over time, than not. Ideally, I'd like to take a sighter on the scree/tallus/gravel (where I can verify POI), just prior to shooting the animal. We don't often get that ideal setup.
Keep the bore and chamber dry. If they get wet, clean and fire a fouling shot. Preferably in a manner that allows POI verification.
If carbon is the suspect, remove carbon fouling with KG-1 or an equivalent carbon remover prior to final bore fouling, POI verification, and hunt.
If I have water in my bore, I'd fire a round to dry the bore if no other means of cleaning is available. Can be fired in the middle of the night. Or if the animal is 800 or more yards away, burn one into the ground prior to engagement.
I try to keep EVERYTHING identical to the conditions at the time I last fired/fouled the bore, and verified zero, to the extent possible.
I verify my POI after arriving in camp. We arrive a day or two early, and verify every rifle's POI. After every precaution, I'll still get burned on the long range shots every now and then. At long range, the longer the time that's transpired between my last POI verification and the shot on game, the less confidence I have that I won't experience a disappointment.
It's much easier to hit the bullseye immediately after zeroing my rifle, than after a couple days afield. I try to get it all right preparation wise. But it's most common for me to have to tweak my turrets over time, than not. Ideally, I'd like to take a sighter on the scree/tallus/gravel (where I can verify POI), just prior to shooting the animal. We don't often get that ideal setup.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I am fascinated by the thought of water in the stock/barrel channel interfering with the barrel floating along with water clinging to the barrel. I don't think this is the answer to what happened to Rich as it doesn't explain the problem still there until cleaning.
Has anyone soaked the outside of the rifle and kept the bore dry and see a difference in poi? It seems logical that this would effect barrel harmonics.
Steve
Has anyone soaked the outside of the rifle and kept the bore dry and see a difference in poi? It seems logical that this would effect barrel harmonics.
Steve
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Unless the water can somehow get trapped between the barrel and stock I can't see it having much if any effect. Water isn't compressible which means as soon as the barrel starts to vibrate and increase in diameter that water will be forced out in a fine mist and most of it will be gone before the round gets to the end of the barrel.
When hunting in the rain or snow with rifles that got soaked to the bone but the bore kept dry I've never noted any change in POI with anything larger than the .204 Ruger and I'm quite convinced that in the cases of the .17 Rem and .204 it was due to in flight factors rather than any changes due to the rifles being wet.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
It is the lack of compression that give me pause to wonder if it has an effect. I know that it comes off and moves during the shot. The question comes from the simultaneous movement of the bullet in the bore while the water is in the way of barrel movement and the physical weight of the water on the barrel changing how it moves. The water that is clinging to the outside of the barrel and in the barrel channel does not get out of the way or off the barrel before the bullet enters the bore of the rifle. My thinking is the water that is in between the barrel and the stock has the most potential to cause a barrel harmonics issue.
Extreme weather when hunting drastically shortens my personal effective range and range sessions in an unprotected shooting position during severe weather just don't happen as I am a fair weather shooter. We take a tent to the long range to set up over the shooting position in bad weather so as not to get all the gear wet. I have shot long range on many occasions in rain that you can just make out the target and have not been able to tell any difference. I have heard both theories that you can hit rain drops and that it is not possible. This one I do not know as I can not say that I have ever hit one. It makes sense that the pressure wave would not allow the bullet to strike the water, but have heard about guys shooting small cal frangible bullets in the rain and having them dust before reaching the target. I would like to see that happen.
Back to the wet rifle. My bet is it would make a difference on poi. It is going to take someone that is willing to shoot then pour a bucket of water over their rifle and then shoot again. Maybe someone here will volunteer to do so and post the results.
Steve
Too many theories. Too many rifles. Too many variables. Too little time...
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
catamountsierra
Well-Known Member
I've had ice build up under a free floated barrel and mess up accuracy before. In a fair amount of the conditions I hunt in that might be a significant issue. I have found that keeping the outside of the barrel and the barrel channel well oiled usually prevents it from sticking and makes it a lot easier to clean out.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Maybe I'll just move to West Texas
Canadian Bushman
Well-Known Member
Maybe I'll just move to West Texas
Prepare yourself for elk withdrawls.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
That's why it won't really happen!
