Recovered Barnes bullet

[WildRose]

The bullet(s) worked. Deer dropped at the second shot and it's at the Taxidermist! But it's still too heavy for his rifle.

Based on what?

 

[WildRose]

Everything in life is a compromise. ESPECIALLY BULLETS. BC, SD, WEIGHT, STABILITY. So many factors to consider and NO IDEA exactly what a bullet will encounter when launched.
In general the Barnes idea is lighter weight, hard construction for a balance of penetration and expansion. Most would go with the lighter TTSX in a 308. Also would kick less.
HOWEVER, if the 130 had hit the hip bone in that critter and not made it past the diaphragm, this thread could be about a lost animal.
Every bullet has a PERFECT niche. I think about how a bullet is going to perform WHEN I am making the shot.
For example, Deer is standing at 300 yds at dark in a small opening surrounded by dense cover and its fixing to rain. With ANY bullet I am going for the high shoulder. Same deer in short grass in the morning? With a Swift A-frame I'm going after the shoulder, a Berger? Ribs.
I take a second and consider PROBABLE bullet performance BEFORE I shoot. That's a MUCH BETTER time than afterwards on a forum
Back in the day when Elmer Keith was writing, there were no SUPER BULLETS. He leaned heavily towards long for caliber, high SD bullets. With conventional stuff I shoot the longest heaviest VLD I can and call it good. I let the SD do the work, not the construction. That is PHYSICS beating CONSTRUCTION.
With super bullets I would pull the weight back and let the CONSTRUCTION do the work.

Placement, Placement, Placement, and yes that includes taking into consideration the design of the bullet you are using.

Bullets designed to hold together and not expand violently are ideal for punching the shoulders or running the length of the body from either end.

Bullets designed for violent explosion will give their best performance passing through the rib cage broadside and avoiding heavy bone.'

Quality bullets rarely fail us, more often than not if there's a failure it's our failure to put it in the right spot.

 

[Antonio m]

Barnes tells you to go for a lighter faster tsx and move your target slightly forward creating a target of more resistance. Deer sized animals don't offer enough resistance to warrant a monolithic bullet in the .308. When you go larger animals look at the very tough premium mono's.That's my style anyways.

 

[PGJPJ]

I've been experimenting with the Barns 168 grain LRX for my 280ai. I'm getting 2900 fps with RL26 (24" barrel), and that's what I'm going to use for a late season cow elk hunt this year (January 1st through March 31st. )

Anyway, I've been looking at the mono's a lot because I'm thinking Oregon may at some point mandate them. But they are shooting very well, and should do nicely on a cow if I'm so fortunate.

For deer, or antelope. That bullet will be a bit much. Maybe the 145 grain LRX, or a good old Berger VLD.

 

[rharfo]

I've killed 2 mule deer and one cow elk with the 168ttsx out of my 300 win. Mule deer around 350 yards elk over 400. Bang flop dead. The 145 LRX shot okay in my 280 ack. Since it didn't out shoot the 140 Accubond i stayed with the AB. The LRX should be the ticket for your cow.

 

[AKSavage]

I shoot a 140 g TSX out of my 7mm-08 at 3000fps. It's a gun I bought as a sheep gun (6 lbs with scope, bullets, and sling). About 7 years ago shot a big moose with it at about 200 yards. The bullet went diagonally through the moose and was found under the hide of the off-side hindquarter...a perfect mushroom. I must say it expanded more than the one pictured in this thread, so maybe there's something to be said for speed, but you don't need a magnum.

Since then I've killed three more moose, several caribou, black bears, Dall rams, and mountain goats with the same rifle and bullet. The longest shot was 400 yards on a Dall sheep. The bullet blew right through and the ram dropped like it was struck by lightening. I have recovered one more bullet since then, also from a moose, also under the hide on the off-side, also a perfect mushroom. All the other shots on smaller animals were pass-throughs with great wound channels and exit wounds.

Admittedly, bang-flop is maybe more than can be expected on a moose, but two of the moose did just that and the other two went under 30 yards. Same for the other critters. None went far.

As far as hitting bone, I don't see that as a problem either. This year's moose was shot facing me. The bullet passed through where the first ribs meet the spine. It CRUSHED the ribs and spine, and continued on to liquefy the vitals. Needless to say the moose hit the ground right there and expired within seconds. I did find some copper fragments in amongst the bone pieces, but obviously most of the bullet continued into the vitals, although I never found it.

Ballistically there are better bullets, but terminally, in my experience, the TSX leaves little to be desired. I've shot moose with 175g Nosler Partitions out of my 7RemMag and they took longer to die.

 

[rharfo]

I shoot a 140 g TSX out of my 7mm-08 at 3000fps. It's a gun I bought as a sheep gun (6 lbs with scope, bullets, and sling). About 7 years ago shot a big moose with it at about 200 yards. The bullet went diagonally through the moose and was found under the hide of the off-side hindquarter...a perfect mushroom. I must say it expanded more than the one pictured in this thread, so maybe there's something to be said for speed, but you don't need a magnum.

Since then I've killed three more moose, several caribou, black bears, Dall rams, and mountain goats with the same rifle and bullet. The longest shot was 400 yards on a Dall sheep. The bullet blew right through and the ram dropped like it was struck by lightening. I have recovered one more bullet since then, also from a moose, also under the hide on the off-side, also a perfect mushroom. All the other shots on smaller animals were pass-throughs with great wound channels and exit wounds.

Admittedly, bang-flop is maybe more than can be expected on a moose, but two of the moose did just that and the other two went under 30 yards. Same for the other critters. None went far.

As far as hitting bone, I don't see that as a problem either. This year's moose was shot facing me. The bullet passed through where the first ribs meet the spine. It CRUSHED the ribs and spine, and continued on to liquefy the vitals. Needless to say the moose hit the ground right there and expired within seconds. I did find some copper fragments in amongst the bone pieces, but obviously most of the bullet continued into the vitals, although I never found it.

Ballistically there are better bullets, but terminally, in my experience, the TSX leaves little to be desired. I've shot moose with 175g Nosler Partitions out of my 7RemMag and they took longer to die.

Impressive! Wish I had your hunting resume!

 

[WildRose]

I've been experimenting with the Barns 168 grain LRX for my 280ai. I'm getting 2900 fps with RL26 (24" barrel), and that's what I'm going to use for a late season cow elk hunt this year (January 1st through March 31st. )

Anyway, I've been looking at the mono's a lot because I'm thinking Oregon may at some point mandate them. But they are shooting very well, and should do nicely on a cow if I'm so fortunate.

For deer, or antelope. That bullet will be a bit much. Maybe the 145 grain LRX, or a good old Berger VLD.

"Too Much bullet" is a myth started long ago by people who were having a hard time selling their preferred bullet.

Understand you bullet and chosen caliber and then place your shots accordingly.

Monometal bullets don't expand violently like many of the lead core bullets so you have to keep that in mind when placing your shot. Don't go for the "behind the shoulder" or "Heart/Lung" shots. If you do you'll punch a small hole through the animal and it will likely run a long ways before expiring.

Put it in the head, neck, or straight through both shoulders on the other hand and they go down hard and fast. Hit the spine and it's over before they hit the ground.

Too many people complain about "bullet failures" but in truth, in most of those cases the failure was on the part of the shooter who failed when it came to proper placement.

I have been rather resistant to coming around to monometals myself for a long time but in the last few years I've had very good performance out of the Hornady GMX and the Peregrine VRG-4 or "Plainsmaster".

The more I shoot the latter the more sold on them I become.

 

[deno]

Wild rose
Do the plains masters blow off the petals easily or hang on to them for better terminal effect?
I realise this is also dependant on a lot of factors. Impact speed and location etc.

 

[WildRose]

Wild rose
Do the plains masters blow off the petals easily or hang on to them for better terminal effect?
I realise this is also dependant on a lot of factors. Impact speed and location etc.

They have no petals to blow off.

The just open up and expand as the plunger is driven back on impact.

 

[WildRose]

I've shot two hogs with them this week, one a boar around 300lbs and another closer to 400lbs.

Both were shot at around 300yds.

Boar one was almost perfectly broadside, I put it just below and behind his left ear, it went straight through the spine and exited so it wasn't recovered.

Boar two was slightly quartering so I put it on the crease between neck and shoulder.

Impact was right on target, it took out the spine just in front of the point of the shoulders and I think may have buried up in the off shoulder. They guys dressing him out are going to look for it for me. It was late when I got to him and while I didn't notice an exit I wasn't really looking for it very hard.

It penetrated at least 18" of thick, tough skin, cartilage, spine, and heavy, thick neck and shoulder muscle.

I was shooting the 125g 6.5 bullet from my .260 Remington so it's not like that bullet was being driven at warp 9, it's just a very well designed and manufactured bullet.

This is the first bullet I've shot that actually shoots better than it's ballistic coefficient would indicate.

In both of my .260's one Remington and one Ruger they are shooting .25-.5 MOA and in my light .300 Rum right around half MOA as well.

 

[deno]

I thought they might form a strong mushroom similar to the lapua naturalis.

Be interesting to see a photo of the bullet if you recover it.

 

[AKSavage]

Impressive! Wish I had your hunting resume!

Yeah, 25 years living in three different areas of Alaska does add up. I didn't hunt before I came here, so it's a bit funny to note that I still haven't killed a mule deer or a whitetail.

Piggybacking on what Wild Rose said, I will add that more explosive bullets tend to drop animals in their tracks with vitals shots, but a mono bullet through the vitals still kills them dead, just not right there. The TSX tears a 1 to 2" would channel through the vitals and keeps on going. You may have a bit of tracking to do but that animal won't go far. Coming from an archery background I'm fine with that, and if you DO hit (shoulder) bone there's no worries with a mono but there will be with a fragile bullet. My feeling is shoot them in the chest with a mono or bonded bullet, and it's dead as long as the bullet expands, and the TSX always has for me. Like I said, if I were shooting over 400 yards I would take lower velocity/less expansion into consideration.

The only time I actually worry about shooting for bone to break the animal down is on a mountain goat or sheep that is near cliffs, or a bear near heavy brush. Then you have to do what you can to anchor them as much as possible. I'm sure there are other times when that's critical too (hogs maybe??)

 

[WildRose]

Yeah, 25 years living in three different areas of Alaska does add up. I didn't hunt before I came here, so it's a bit funny to note that I still haven't killed a mule deer or a whitetail.

Piggybacking on what Wild Rose said, I will add that more explosive bullets tend to drop animals in their tracks with vitals shots, but a mono bullet through the vitals still kills them dead, just not right there. The TSX tears a 1 to 2" would channel through the vitals and keeps on going. You may have a bit of tracking to do but that animal won't go far. Coming from an archery background I'm fine with that, and if you DO hit (shoulder) bone there's no worries with a mono but there will be with a fragile bullet. My feeling is shoot them in the chest with a mono or bonded bullet, and it's dead as long as the bullet expands, and the TSX always has for me. Like I said, if I were shooting over 400 yards I would take lower velocity/less expansion into consideration.

The only time I actually worry about shooting for bone to break the animal down is on a mountain goat or sheep that is near cliffs, or a bear near heavy brush. Then you have to do what you can to anchor them as much as possible. I'm sure there are other times when that's critical too (hogs maybe??)

A TTSX through the ribs can leave you tracking a deer for a very long ways. My neighbor a few weeks back was hunting with his daughter. She shot a nice buck with her .243 loaded with Barnes factory ammo shooting the TTSX.

I heard the shot and the impact and my first thought was that it wasn't a good hit, I expected a follow up shot but didn't hear it.

A few hours later they call me, the deer had run off onto my property. We looked for about 2 hours finding good blood in different places for about 400yds. We lost the trail in the dark but I told them to feel free to come check tomorrow in the light and call me if they wanted help.

The trailed him a full half mile across my place and across the county road with less and less of a blood trail to follow which finally just petered out completely.

He was sure the impact was perfect, a few inches behind the shoulder and should have exited the same place on the off side since it was a full broadside shot.

He has yet to be found. Poor kid was feeling really bad and I told her just to get over it, it happens to all of us at some point in our hunting careers and to just be sure in the future when using that same bullet, to put it dead on the shoulder so at worst you break down both shoulders and hopefully take out the spine.