Recently overcame accuracy problem (rem 700)

[uka]

when cleaning modern smokeless power, don't really need to clean at all for periods of time. Brushes not good, as can scratch the barrel, even if bronze. If trying to get some copper out use One Shot. squirt it down the barrel, it foams up like shaving cream, and set for 1/2 hour, then run patches through it. If not completely copper free, repeat, but shouldn't need more than 2 applications . smokeless powder doesn't leave any residue that will hurt the barrel or affect accuracy (I have a friend, TOP, competitive shooter, long range, 800-1000 yds. She shoots thousands of rounds a season, and unless something funky happens, doesn't clean her barrel.). I grew up with a patch or so dipped in Hoppe's 9, and run through and dried was all anyone did. NO ONE broke in a barrel. This a fairly new phonomenen and agree it seems to do some good. Just like Dave (Tubb) cleaning up bullets. I have never used them, but evidently they work. At the most , I would run a Hoppe's patch down the barrel followed by a couple of dry ones, to get the little bit of soot out, but that would be it.

the foaming bore cleaners are excellent . I cleaned an old 98 Mauser with the foam and green paint came out the barrel. I talked to a barrel maker on the phone once and he said JB compound and a cleaning rod was his best friends very good for the business of making new barrels. I have ruined barrels with cleaning aggressively and using Sweets 7.62 solvent

 

[foul bore]

I bet the Xbolt 308 browning will shoot. No doubt you will break it in right

 

[Susquatch]

I have had the same experience with two factory rifles I owned - one Rem 700 in 308, and a Browning XBolt also in 308. Both had horrible bores right from the factory - and I do mean HORRIBLE! The only difference between us is that I own a bore scope. So I knew right away that I had only two viable choices - get some Tubbs Final Finish Bullets or re-barrel the rifles. Tubbs seemed like the better choice. Like you, I found that they WORKED!

I don't recommend Final Finish for every bore, but they will definitely help the bad ones. For the rest, a proper breakin is usually all that's required.

I also want to say that not all factory barrels are bad. Two of my best shooting rifles (both Rem 700s) were awesome right out of the box, and I do mean awesome! Both AVERAGE under 1/4 MOA for 5 shots and refuse to shoot much over 1/2 no matter what you feed them. My point here is that factory rifles vary widely in barrel quality. You can get good ones and bad ones and that's just the way it is.

Great to hear it all worked out for you!

 

[Susquatch]

One of the many things I like about a Savage bolt rifle while being a little ugly the 2 locking bolts make 100% contact with the locking recesses due to the floating bolt head. it is kinda silly making a bolt with rigid lugs and trying to mate it in recesses milled into the receiver in a production rifle. I have a SIG 30-06 where you can change the barrel and the lugs lock into an extension on the barrel and they get near 100% lockup

Yes & No. That swivel head on the Savage doesn't always work. In my humble opinion and experience as a smith, 50% or better lug contact isn't as important as concentric contact precisely aligned with the bore. That's WAY easier to do on a Remington than a Savage. Maybe another way to say this is that a pair of lugs that float and make 100% contact will still shoot like crap if that floating head has to tilt off axis in order to make that 100% contact...... There is a reason that most precision custom actions (defiance, bat, etc) have one piece bolts.

That's not a bash at Savage. Just pointing out that a floating head is no guarantee of optimum lug geometry.

 

[uka]

Yes & No. That swivel head on the Savage doesn't always work. In my humble opinion and experience as a smith, 50% or better lug contact isn't as important as concentric contact precisely aligned with the bore. That's WAY easier to do on a Remington than a Savage. Maybe another way to say this is that a pair of lugs that float and make 100% contact will still shoot like crap if that floating head has to tilt off axis in order to make that 100% contact...... There is a reason that most precision custom actions (defiance, bat, etc) have one piece bolts.

That's not a bash at Savage. Just pointing out that a floating head is no guarantee of optimum lug geometry.

Yes you are right and you explain like a modest professional. But I don't think I ever saw a savage that did not shoot lights out from the box. I think today with CNC machining tolerances are way better. maybe that is why budget guns from the major makers shoot as good as custom guns did 40 years ago. chamber alignment with the barrel I read can also be off. I have seen where Steyr cold hammer forges barrels where that process originated has a method where the chamber is made along with the rifling having perfect alignment

 

[ATH]

Factory Remington barrels can be a fickle bunch. I have a Sendero bought circa 2002, 300WM. Always flat out shot, .3 MOA or so for 5-shot 100 yard groups. But I'd only at about 15 shots before it became a 2-3 MOA shotgun. Copper. Foaming One SHot didn't cut it, I'd plug the breech and fill the bore with copper solvent. Then it came back to normal.

That got old, a number of years ago I did the Tubb bullet treatment, used the finer 3 grades, skipped the coarsest 2. Worked like a dream. Didn't impact accuracy, but the copper fouling issue abated and now I get 30-40 shots between cleanings. Still not like a custom barrel, but it's got 900 rounds on it now so I'm just waiting for it to open up and give me a reason...

 

[25WSM]

If you took the jb bore cleaner away from target shooter there would be rivers of tears. Almost everyone at Williamsport has in in there box and use every time they clean myself included. What ruins barrels is not having the proper size rod and bore guide. Jb is the best at getting rid of pesky carbon. And if you don't use it you probaly have a carbon issue. I don't know one barrel manufacturer that says in kills barrels and I've used most barrels made today. Shep

 

[uka]

Factory Remington barrels can be a fickle bunch. I have a Sendero bought circa 2002, 300WM. Always flat out shot, .3 MOA or so for 5-shot 100 yard groups. But I'd only at about 15 shots before it became a 2-3 MOA shotgun. Copper. Foaming One SHot didn't cut it, I'd plug the breech and fill the bore with copper solvent. Then it came back to normal. powders like Rel 15 CFE 223 Ramshot Tac and IMR makes it also. these powders eliminate copper fouling. try one of them. before I started using those powder the foaming cleaner worked real good for me

That got old, a number of years ago I did the Tubb bullet treatment, used the finer 3 grades, skipped the coarsest 2. Worked like a dream. Didn't impact accuracy, but the copper fouling issue abated and now I get 30-40 shots between cleanings. Still not like a custom barrel, but it's got 900 rounds on it now so I'm just waiting for it to open up and give me a reason...

 

[uka]

If you took the jb bore cleaner away from target shooter there would be rivers of tears. Almost everyone at Williamsport has in in there box and use every time they clean myself included. What ruins barrels is not having the proper size rod and bore guide. Jb is the best at getting rid of pesky carbon. And if you don't use it you probaly have a carbon issue. I don't know one barrel manufacturer that says in kills barrels and I've used most barrels made today. Shep

why would a barrel maker whose livelihood rests on making barrels tell you not to use JB? lol. the barrel maker told me it takes a little off the rifling each time and he measured it. are those bench rest shooters you talking about? those lunatics change barrels after 500 rds

 

[uka]

Factory Remington barrels can be a fickle bunch. I have a Sendero bought circa 2002, 300WM. Always flat out shot, .3 MOA or so for 5-shot 100 yard groups. But I'd only at about 15 shots before it became a 2-3 MOA shotgun. Copper. Foaming One SHot didn't cut it, I'd plug the breech and fill the bore with copper solvent. Then it came back to normal.

That got old, a number of years ago I did the Tubb bullet treatment, used the finer 3 grades, skipped the coarsest 2. Worked like a dream. Didn't impact accuracy, but the copper fouling issue abated and now I get 30-40 shots between cleanings. Still not like a custom barrel, but it's got 900 rounds on it now so I'm just waiting for it to open up and give me a reason...

you can use Rel 15 Ram Shot Tac CFE 223 and IMR makes one also that eliminate copper fouling. before I used those powders the foaming cleaner worked excellent for me. some barrels I left it in overnight. others 15 minutes

 

[Susquatch]

I don't think I ever saw a savage that did not shoot lights out from the box. I think today with CNC machining tolerances are way better. maybe that is why budget guns from the major makers shoot as good as custom guns did 40 years ago.

I do agree that Savage seems to make a higher percentage of out of the box shooters. But I have seen a few that didn't.

I also agree that recent production rifles have both improved via modern methods and gotten worse as a result of trying to take too much cost out. I think that's the main reason that out of the box accuracy varies so much from rifle to rifle. There is no question that new rifles today shoot way better than they did when I started shooting 65 years ago. There is also no question that most can be further improved with a little TLC and some upgrades.

 

[uka]

I do agree that Savage seems to make a higher percentage of out of the box shooters. But I have seen a few that didn't.

I also agree that recent production rifles have both improved via modern methods and gotten worse as a result of trying to take too much cost out. I think that's the main reason that out of the box accuracy varies so much from rifle to rifle. There is no question that new rifles today shoot way better than they did when I started shooting 65 years ago. There is also no question that most can be further improved with a little TLC and some upgrades.

without a doubt

 

[25WSM]

2500 rds on 300wsms 2500 rds on 6cm and 6slr. Nobody is changing barrels at 500 rds unless its just not a competitive barrel. Amazing all that jb we use and still shoot 3 inch ten shot groups at 1000 yards. My slr was still shooting some 5 and 6 inch groups at 2500 rds. I just retired that barrel at just over 3000 rds. One barrel maker unnamed or thousands of competition shooters world wide. Every world record holder I know personally use it Every time they clean. Go figure. Shep

 

[uka]

2500 rds on 300wsms 2500 rds on 6cm and 6slr. Nobody is changing barrels at 500 rds unless its just not a competitive barrel. Amazing all that jb we use and still shoot 3 inch ten shot groups at 1000 yards. My slr was still shooting some 5 and 6 inch groups at 2500 rds. I just retired that barrel at just over 3000 rds. One barrel maker unnamed or thousands of competition shooters world wide. Every world record holder I know personally use it Every time they clean. Go figure. Shep

3" ten shot groups at 1000 yds? is that a world record?