Recently overcame accuracy problem (rem 700)

[Mustang72]

Sadly I don't think Remington s quality is what it used to be,until you get to their higher end stuff.

 

[WildBillG]

My thought is he just got a poor one. Really other then the trigger he didn't do a lot to the rifle. I was told Remington's suck now when I bought my 22-250 at BassPro Shop. Well I bought it any way a 700SPS Varmint Not expensive. Got it home and resized all my brass to fit new chamber and loaded some rounds up to my old load. Went out to the range and fired them and guess what less then3/4 inch group. Tried 2 or 3 more with a little more powder each time and less then 1/2 inch. The only thing I have changed is the trigger because of the stories of bad Remington triggers. My take Remington still makes great rifles for the cost.

 

[Jack R Tishue Jr]

Actually, when I was young, many years ago, 3" accuracy out of the box was norm in many cases. 2" was better and 1" was a bragging gun. No real need for more than 2" for a hunting gun. And if you think Timney triggers good, you need to try the Jewell ones. they go down to 2 oz or so trigger pull and up from there. Used a lot by competitive shooters, and only a few $ more than Timney. Jewell makes at least a 1/2 dozen triggers for the 700. Mostly difference is with and without a safety, and for target shooting or plain hunting. the BR type will go down to 2oz trigger pull. Probably a bit light for most hunting rifles.

 

[CanardNoir]

I think you just posted up some proof that a barrel that broke in right will foul less and clean quicker BUT also be more accurate! Good job!

In re: To Your Point -
S.G. & Y. Precision Rifles, LLC - Barrel Break-In & Cleaning Procedures
by Speedy Gonzalez

Many of our customers upon taking delivery of their new gun or barrel are in a quandary as how to go about breaking-in that new barrel for maximum life and accuracy. With so much written in magazines these days stating use this, don't use that, brush, don't brush...what's a person to do??

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13001

 

[RAGGED EDGE]

The first place to start is the fire-control system. The x-mark trigger is about as bad as it gets. A good replacement trigger is called for here, then the quest for the elusive half-inch group can begin.

 

[James L Holzhauer]

I have had a 50% reduction of my group size with this on my 300 WSM

 

[Jack R Tishue Jr]

In re: To Your Point -
S.G. & Y. Precision Rifles, LLC - Barrel Break-In & Cleaning Procedures
by Speedy Gonzalez

Many of our customers upon taking delivery of their new gun or barrel are in a quandary as how to go about breaking-in that new barrel for maximum life and accuracy. With so much written in magazines these days stating use this, don't use that, brush, don't brush...what's a person to do??

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13001

when cleaning modern smokeless power, don't really need to clean at all for periods of time. Brushes not good, as can scratch the barrel, even if bronze. If trying to get some copper out use One Shot. squirt it down the barrel, it foams up like shaving cream, and set for 1/2 hour, then run patches through it. If not completely copper free, repeat, but shouldn't need more than 2 applications . smokeless powder doesn't leave any residue that will hurt the barrel or affect accuracy (I have a friend, TOP, competitive shooter, long range, 800-1000 yds. She shoots thousands of rounds a season, and unless something funky happens, doesn't clean her barrel.). I grew up with a patch or so dipped in Hoppe's 9, and run through and dried was all anyone did. NO ONE broke in a barrel. This a fairly new phonomenen and agree it seems to do some good. Just like Dave (Tubb) cleaning up bullets. I have never used them, but evidently they work. At the most , I would run a Hoppe's patch down the barrel followed by a couple of dry ones, to get the little bit of soot out, but that would be it.

 

[Swiftkill]

I am by no means an expert, but far from a novice.

I previously posted in the reloading section about having problems developing a load that my Remington 700 Long Range would like in 25-06. I posted my final update there, but today I made even more strides that I wanted to share.

I went through five different powders and five different projectiles. Nothing worked...not even factory ammo. I didn't know if 25-06 was just a finicky caliber or if it was a problem with my rifle. The only thing that could hit right at MOA were 75gr VMax. My 100gr Sierras would open up a bit, and 115 Noslers opened up a bit more. I was getting between 2-4" groups with 115gr bullets.

I noticed at the range one day that my rifle was copper fouling after about 20 rounds. I figured that was an issue I should address. Next up, by recommendation on this forum, was to get rid of the lead sled. Although it was shooting fine with light bullets...heavier bullet, the more recoil...perhaps just enough to induces excess oscillation. That made sense; if there is no where for the recoil to go, the barrel is the only other moving part.

Between my next trip to the range, I used some Sweet's 7.62 copper remover and cleaned up the barrel real good. I also bought a gun rest for just the forend of the rifle. I also tried a slower burning powder and some Nolser 115gr ballistic tips vs. the partitions I was trying before. The rifle was right at MOA, if not slightly under. I was happier, but still not satisfied. It copper fouled badly!

I did some more reading. Between trips to the range, I installed a Timney Trigger, factory set at 3lbs. Oooh, feels so good!!! I hit the range with 30 rounds loaded of Tubb's Final Finish barrel lapping bullets...using only the last three, lightest abrasive bullets, cleaning thoroughly between each set of 10. On the last set, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Each round was tearing the same hole wider with each shot. I cleaned it up and fired my first set of Nosler 115s...5 rounds at about .5 MOA!!! No. Way! There are mixed reviews on whether final finish can improve accuracy. I am a believer.
I thought this gun was toast. I was talking with gunsmiths about possibly recrowning or just buying a new barrel. Knowing I had a fouler, I figured, "What can it hurt to try Final Finish?"

RECAP:
Get off the lead sled so the rifle can recoil naturally.
Try different powders and primers.
If it is a fouler, do something about it...unless you enjoy swabbing out copper every time.
My first time with a quality trigger...VERY big difference!

You have to find the sweet spot in barrel harmonics and stay consistent. Use a front pedestal rest with a soft sandbag and rear sandbag rifle bag. keep the forearm at the same spot shot to shot. Drop trigger weight to 2# or less, mine are 1# to 1.25#. Install a JP 3 port compensator in 30 cal. Hole. Dont free recoil but snug into shoulder slightly need at least 16X to shoot decent groups more easily. I use 20x minimum, prefer 24X. Dry fire and watch your teticle movement. Take stress out of your rifle position.
Speer 25 caliber bullets are the bomb in 25.45 Ar they shoot .25 in groups.
Picture is a 243 with jp 3 port comp. I cant attach video here.

 

[NEMTHunter]

In re: To Your Point -
S.G. & Y. Precision Rifles, LLC - Barrel Break-In & Cleaning Procedures
by Speedy Gonzalez

Many of our customers upon taking delivery of their new gun or barrel are in a quandary as how to go about breaking-in that new barrel for maximum life and accuracy. With so much written in magazines these days stating use this, don't use that, brush, don't brush...what's a person to do??

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=13001

I do it different then that. The way I do it takes less bullets. But more cleaning. LOL But I will say this after its done the gun cleaned so much quicker.

 

[Jester896]

I have an M77VT in .25-06 that loved the old Hornady Custom 117gr BTSP Interlock. It would shoot .5 most anytime I shot it. It liked a couple of fouling shots before it would settle in. Hornady stopped making them so I used IMR4831 and tried to get them to match the factory ones. The effort made my .5 gun a .26 gun with 1 fouling shot.

 

[25WSM]

I've been smithing for over 30 years and specialize in remington 700s. Doesn't take much to get them shooting great. The Clark is not a bad trigger it just needs the angles on the sear adjusted and a better spring for the trigger return. If you have a cheap plastic stock free float it. Then torque the action screws to 25 in pounds. If you get laminate or wood you need to pillar bed them and free float. If it has an HS precision your normally good to go on bedding. On to the action. Check the lug surface on the bolt to see how much each lug touches. Put black Sharpe on the lugs and open and close it a few times. If you don't have 50% or more on each lug take it to a smith. Trying to lap lugs with the barrel on is not a good idea. I find most 700s need some lapping to the lugs. Some only have one lug touching. I have had to fix tons of bolts that were done wrong by their owners. Break that barrel in. Lots of cleaning and shoot and clean and do this for 50 rounds. Then develope your load and you should be good. So here it is in a nut shell. Junk the plastic stock. Free float the barrel. Pillar bed the stock. 50 to 60 inch pounds on action screws once pillars are done. Make sure lugs touch 50% or more on each side. Break barrel in completely. If you want to make it nicer do the trigger. They are easily capable of 1/2 moa. Good luck Shep

 

[duke75]

I hear ya. This just happened to be the the worst gun out-the-box I have ever experienced. Started with darn near 4" groups at 100 yards. I still believe a product shouldn't "need work" to serve its intended purpose. Heck, my flimsy stock $300 Ruger American 308 always shot .75 MOA or better on a bad day...since the day I took it home.

I agree with you, quality control has plummeted and it appears this rifle fell through
all their lacking quality control stations.
Unfortunately it's all about the bottom line, get 'em out quick and as cheap as possible. Realistically, the competition is brutal, and to keep costs down many corners are cut to the detriment of the consumer and, ultimately the manufacturer. The chickens do come home to roost.

 

[uka]

I am by no means an expert, but far from a novice.

I previously posted in the reloading section about having problems developing a load that my Remington 700 Long Range would like in 25-06. I posted my final update there, but today I made even more strides that I wanted to share.

I went through five different powders and five different projectiles. Nothing worked...not even factory ammo. I didn't know if 25-06 was just a finicky caliber or if it was a problem with my rifle. The only thing that could hit right at MOA were 75gr VMax. My 100gr Sierras would open up a bit, and 115 Noslers opened up a bit more. I was getting between 2-4" groups with 115gr bullets.

I noticed at the range one day that my rifle was copper fouling after about 20 rounds. I figured that was an issue I should address. Next up, by recommendation on this forum, was to get rid of the lead sled. Although it was shooting fine with light bullets...heavier bullet, the more recoil...perhaps just enough to induces excess oscillation. That made sense; if there is no where for the recoil to go, the barrel is the only other moving part.

Between my next trip to the range, I used some Sweet's 7.62 copper remover and cleaned up the barrel real good. I also bought a gun rest for just the forend of the rifle. I also tried a slower burning powder and some Nolser 115gr ballistic tips vs. the partitions I was trying before. The rifle was right at MOA, if not slightly under. I was happier, but still not satisfied. It copper fouled badly!

I did some more reading. Between trips to the range, I installed a Timney Trigger, factory set at 3lbs. Oooh, feels so good!!! I hit the range with 30 rounds loaded of Tubb's Final Finish barrel lapping bullets...using only the last three, lightest abrasive bullets, cleaning thoroughly between each set of 10. On the last set, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Each round was tearing the same hole wider with each shot. I cleaned it up and fired my first set of Nosler 115s...5 rounds at about .5 MOA!!! No. Way! There are mixed reviews on whether final finish can improve accuracy. I am a believer.
I thought this gun was toast. I was talking with gunsmiths about possibly recrowning or just buying a new barrel. Knowing I had a fouler, I figured, "What can it hurt to try Final Finish?"

RECAP:
Get off the lead sled so the rifle can recoil naturally.
Try different powders and primers.
If it is a fouler, do something about it...unless you enjoy swabbing out copper every time.
My first time with a quality trigger...VERY big difference!

there are powders like Rel 15 CFE 223 and IMR has a couple that eliminate copper fouling. I am pretty sure Ram Shot Tac powder is another. the army requested that type of powder and must have financed the research. CFE means copper fouling eliminator and will actually clean copper out of a barrel while keeping any more being left in a barrel. I have used 3 of them and they totally work . I use standard 06 308 style rifles and if I had a barrel burning fire belching super T-Rex killer magnum I would certainly load with one or more of those powders lol

 

[uka]

I've been smithing for over 30 years and specialize in remington 700s. Doesn't take much to get them shooting great. The Clark is not a bad trigger it just needs the angles on the sear adjusted and a better spring for the trigger return. If you have a cheap plastic stock free float it. Then torque the action screws to 25 in pounds. If you get laminate or wood you need to pillar bed them and free float. If it has an HS precision your normally good to go on bedding. On to the action. Check the lug surface on the bolt to see how much each lug touches. Put black Sharpe on the lugs and open and close it a few times. If you don't have 50% or more on each lug take it to a smith. Trying to lap lugs with the barrel on is not a good idea. I find most 700s need some lapping to the lugs. Some only have one lug touching. I have had to fix tons of bolts that were done wrong by their owners. Break that barrel in. Lots of cleaning and shoot and clean and do this for 50 rounds. Then develope your load and you should be good. So here it is in a nut shell. Junk the plastic stock. Free float the barrel. Pillar bed the stock. 50 to 60 inch pounds on action screws once pillars are done. Make sure lugs touch 50% or more on each side. Break barrel in completely. If you want to make it nicer do the trigger. They are easily capable of 1/2 moa. Good luck Shep

One of the many things I like about a Savage bolt rifle while being a little ugly the 2 locking bolts make 100% contact with the locking recesses due to the floating bolt head. it is kinda silly making a bolt with rigid lugs and trying to mate it in recesses milled into the receiver in a production rifle. I have a SIG 30-06 where you can change the barrel and the lugs lock into an extension on the barrel and they get near 100% lockup