Problems with annealing by hand?

[Pdvdh]

I recently purchased a battery powered hand drill by annealeez, or at least that's what I thought it was.

 

[Tommo64]

Nothing wrong with hand annealing. Better than not annealing at all imho. I used the pistol drill and socket method. You just need to pay attention to the torch position and dwell time in the flame. Eventually I built my own annealing machine.

 

[manitou]

Like many here I anneal by hand with a propane torch, a drill motor and a socket. makes for a great way to keep valuable brass around for much longer and it makes forming brass much easier and less scrap. I still loose lots of R-P brass even though I anneal it every time I shoot it. Most specifically my 30-30 , 17 rem, and my 22-250. the funny thing is I just neck size the 17 rem and 22-250 and still loose 25% to 50% of the brass I fire.

You a machinist Freddiej?

 

[Bob Wright]

With annealing you just want to get to the temperature fast. I just watch for yellow gas showing up at the flame contact point. That's the point you're burning out the zinc. I step back about 1 second from that point when using socket and torch and timing the cycle in the flame. Normally I can do a 7RM case in 5-6 seconds.

 

[Savage 22-243 AI]

I use this method with socket in drill, case spinning and use torch with Map gas heating to medium red then quench in water. I had to start doing this years ago for 243 brass formed into 22-243 AI , because brass would split otherwise when fireforming. Brass today isn't annealed well unless top line expensive brass. Other brass I anneal when it loses its annealing color or I find crack or split neck in case.

 

[Bwana Barry]

I used a 9/16 socket, tape down trigger so it rotates about once per second.

Set case into socket. Adjust torch until bright blue flame is about an inch long [fairly low setting], i then aim torch slightly downward angle right at the shoulder. Bright blue flame just about touching case. This leaves the case mouth above the flame. I do this is a dark room with door shut. Case changes color about 6-8 seconds. I watch the case mouth, see a faint glow and stop. I wear a welding glove on left hand for removing each case.

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Your's is a good no-nonsense post which makes 100% sense.
Would a 30-06 brass case be annealed 2 or 3 seconds longer time than a 6.5x55 one?
I work on 7-9 secs for 6.5x55

 

[Bwana Barry]

Purchased and used tempilaq in a couple different temperature ranges. Tried it. Proved too difficult to see color change for me.

Haven't used it for many years now. Don't even know if I could find it or kept it. I use a battery operated drill with a universal case holder which grips the case heads in their extraction groove. Works good for me.

Never gonna spend $500 on an automated annealing machine. I hunt long range. Don't shoot 1000yd benchrest competition. So don't know if those guys actually benefit or not. I did watch a couple YouTube videos by Erik Cortina, who competes professionally. Here's a couple YouTube links posted by Erik, which provide a good visual demonstration of cartidge case annealing.

Great, but I just wish I knew which caliber- brass was used......10seconds...........same for 375 and 243??

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

Your's is a good no-nonsense post which makes 100% sense.
Would a 30-06 brass case be annealed 2 or 3 seconds than a 6.5x55 one?
I work on 7-9 secs for 6.5x55

I get in a groove and when I'm doing a batch my timing is very close, the range comes from different batches at different times. The torch may be hotter, i may be holding it slightly closer, but I always stop at the first sign of dark orange glow in the dark room. That way i know I'm staying consistent and not frying my brass.

I'm not an expert or have vast experience, just sharing mine.

I have also welded quite a bit and so have some experience in heat and metal interactions....

 

[ButterBean]

Great, but I just wish I knew which caliber- brass was used......10seconds...........same for 375 and 243??

Don't worry about time, Dark room, Soft Orange glow, It's that simple

 

[PapaWilly]

I used a 9/16 socket, tape down trigger so it rotates about once per second.

Set case into socket. Adjust torch until bright blue flame is about an inch long [fairly low setting], i then aim torch slightly downward angle right at the shoulder. Bright blue flame just about touching case. This leaves the case mouth above the flame. I do this is a dark room with door shut. Case changes color about 6-8 seconds. I watch the case mouth, see a faint glow and stop. I wear a welding glove on left hand for removing each case.

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[Pdvdh]

Don't worry about time, Dark room, Soft Orange glow, It's that simple

Yup. If you have some trash casings laying around, I suggest start out with some of it and look for the faint soft glow. Once you recognize that on the test casings, then move on to annealing your good brass.

It may take a few efforts to see the brass case necks beginning to glow. It shows up really well in the videos posted above, and what also shows well is the flame itself turning from blue to yellow/orange when the brass shoulder/neck are being overcooked to red hot temps. Also suggest toasting some junky brass just to observe the flame change color from blue to orange, as shown in the over-cooked cases in Erik Cortina's videos.

 

[Bwana Barry]

Yup. If you have some trash casings laying around, I suggest start out with some of it and look for the faint soft glow. Once you recognize that on the test casings, then move on to annealing your good brass.

It may take a few efforts to see the brass case necks beginning to glow. It shows up really well in the videos posted above, and what also shows well is the flame itself turning from blue to yellow/orange when the brass shoulder/neck are being overcooked to red hot temps. Also suggest toasting some junky brass just to observe the flame change color from blue to orange, as shown in the over-cooked cases in Erik Cortina's videos.

Thanks - makes sense, but if I TIME it - all things being equal, viz, type of brass, caliber, flame etc, then I just begin to count each time I anneal a case. I would know how many seconds each caliber takes to begin to glow..........can then do it every time in normal light...

(I bought a bottle of tempilaque and used a few drops once, but was not impressed.....a waste of money.)

 

[Pdvdh]

Thanks - makes sense, but if I TIME it - all things being equal, viz, type of brass, caliber, flame etc, then I just begin to count each time I anneal a case. I would know how many seconds each caliber takes to begin to glow..........can then do it every time in normal light...

(I bought a bottle of tempilaque and used a few drops once, but was not impressed.....a waste of money.)

I've done it the timed way before by setting a clock with a second hand directly behind the torch flame so I can count seconds the case shoulder is engaged into the torch flame. Still gotta figure out the correct number of seconds one way or another if solely relying on the second hand. So just be conscious of the fact that the number of seconds in the flame will be dependent on the temperature of your flame (Map gas burns much hotter than a Propane torch - I use Propane), the size of the casings, the length you set your torch flame to, the location you engage the case shoulder in the flame, and whether or not you fart during the process.

For my .223 Rem cases, and the way I set my propane torch flame, 5 1/2 to 6 seconds is about right. But for 280, 7mmRM, 300Mags, 338Mags, the time will be longer. So figure out how many seconds by watching a few begin that faint orange glow on whatever cartridges you're annealing, and then maintain the same flame length and insert the rest of your casings into the same location of the flame for the same number of seconds; you'll be pretty darn close. Change the length of the blue flame from your torch, or where you place the case shoulders into that flame, and the proper length of time in seconds will be a little different. I tend to believe there's some latitude in the amount of annealing applied to the case shoulders, without severe negative consequences. But I can see David Tubbs, Erik Cortina, and competitive shooters striving for the utmost consistency and spending $500 or more for an automated annealing machince. It's a living for some of them, and to compete with the best of the best, consistency is critical.

 

[7stw]

I sure am missing JE Custom right now

Yeah, where is he, MIA?