Primer Pocket Restoration

[bigedp51]

Below is a exaggerated illustration of the effects of excessive pressure on the base of the case and the brass stretching beyond its elastic limits. The brass case is a expendable item and not worth having a scored bolt face from a leaking primer pocket.

Below on the left is a Federal .223 case with a thin flash hole web, and on the right is a military Lake City case with a much thicker flash hole web. The thickness of the flash hole web adds strength to the base of the case and and the longevity of the primer pocket.

Below is a photo from a AR15 reloading forum and the person who posted the photo said he didn't worry about loose primer pockets. And he also stated he would just replace the bolt when it got bad enough.

I use a simple test for loose primer pockets, below is a Lee depriming tool and if the primer moves with just finger pressure the case goes in the scrap brass bucket.

The cartridge case is a expandable item and the last thing anyone needs is a scored bolt face trying to save a few cents.

 

[Black Tail Hunter]

The brass case is a expendable item and not worth having a scored bolt face from a leaking primer pocket.

For 5.56 brass at pennies per case you are correct. However when loading custom brass which in my case is around 4.00 ea. it pays to try and extend your brass life as much as possible.

 

[Wedgy]

Remember when it was impossible to find RUM brass ???
I can assure you that this method works regardless if one feels warm and fuzzy or not.

 

[bigedp51]

When you swage military primer crimps you push the brass crimp outward and enlarge the mouth the primer pocket.

And when you use the ball bearing method all you are doing is crimping the mouth of the primer pocket smaller in diameter. And you are not reducing the entire primer pocket diameter back to normal.

Again below the primer pocket ends up tapered and you hope the base of the primer expands and seals the primer pocket when fired.

 

[Pdvdh]

And when you use the ball bearing method all you are doing is crimping the mouth of the primer pocket smaller in diameter. And you are not reducing the entire primer pocket diameter back to normal.

Again below the primer pocket ends up tapered and you hope the base of the primer expands and seals the primer pocket when fired.

I'm open to the possibility that you are trying to be helpful. But have you ever tried the tbrice23 method, or any other method of restoring swelled primer pockets so that cases can continue to be used without any escaping gases?

That last post you and I engaged in, you tried convince the entire membership that a 0.0001" accurate measuring instrument was required to detect significant case head, case web, and primer pocket swelling, when swelling up to 0.001" is insignificant with respect to shooter safety.

If your position is based on no first hand experience, and your goal is to be helpful, then I'll recommend you provide your direct experience, or lack thereof. Then we'll be able to properly evaluate and compare the value of your helpfulness.

 

[bigedp51]

And trying to discredit someone doesn't change the facts, all the ball bearing is doing is crimping the mouth of the primer pocket smaller.

This can be proved with a primer pocket swager or reamer, meaning swage or ream the primer pocket mouth after using the ball bearing and see how loose the primer pocket is.

And the reason the primers are loose is because the brass stretched beyond it elastic limits.

And phorwath you have no idea what I have done in the past trying to salvage loose primer pockets. So drop the know it all attitude and buy some pin gauges and check the primer pockets yourself.

 

[MudRunner2005]

For 5.56 brass at pennies per case you are correct. However when loading custom brass which in my case is around 4.00 ea. it pays to try and extend your brass life as much as possible.

When my STW brass and .300 Ackley cases ($4.00+ each) gets a loose primer pocket, I crush it, and toss it in the garbage, that way nobody else can try to use it, and it's only choice is to be melted back down.

 

[MudRunner2005]

When you swage military primer crimps you push the brass crimp outward and enlarge the mouth the primer pocket.

And when you use the ball bearing method all you are doing is crimping the mouth of the primer pocket smaller in diameter. And you are not reducing the entire primer pocket diameter back to normal.

Again below the primer pocket ends up tapered and you hope the base of the primer expands and seals the primer pocket when fired.

This confirms exactly what I was saying... Thanks Ed.

 

[Pdvdh]

And trying to discredit someone doesn't change the facts, all the ball bearing is doing is crimping the mouth of the primer pocket smaller. That statement means nothing, without your definition of mouth.

This can be proved with a primer pocket swager or reamer, meaning swage or ream the primer pocket mouth after using the ball bearing and see how loose the primer pocket is. And you've collected all the data and measurements based on first hand experience? Then pile it on.

And the reason the primers are loose is because the brass stretched beyond it elastic limits. Finally, you got one correct.

And phorwath you have no idea what I have done in the past trying to salvage loose primer pockets. Enlighten me on your experience. Sure hope it exceeds your 0.001" dial caliper measurement experience. So drop the know it all attitude and buy some pin gauges and check the primer pockets yourself. And to think I gave you the benefit of the doubt about trying to be helpful. On that, I'll give it to you, I was wrong.

I don't try to discredit you. You do that well enough all by yourself.

I correct you on facts. Not opinion. You like to live in opinions. Of course all opinions are correct. Even yours. Can't discredit opinions.

 

[Pdvdh]

When my STW brass and .300 Ackley cases ($4.00+ each) gets a loose primer pocket, I crush it, and toss it in the garbage, that way nobody else can try to use it, and it's only choice is to be melted back down.

That provides the OP with your practice. Perhaps that's all he was asking. I took him to be looking for options to restore primer pockets.

What does your tossing them in the garbage have to do with restoration? Wasn't he asking for a way to avoid doing what you do?

 

[MudRunner2005]

That provides the OP with your practice. Perhaps that's all he was asking. I took him to be looking for options to restore primer pockets.

What does your tossing them in the garbage have to do with restoration? Wasn't he asking for a way to avoid doing what you do?

Contrary to what some might think, I'm not trying to **** in anyone's wheaties. But facts are fact, there is currently no way to restore a primer pocket once it has stretched beyond its limitations. There is no way to avoid the inevitable, that I am aware of, because I've never seen a brass base/case head squeezing die. I have been a custom metal fabricator for almost 20 years. I have used lots of strange methods to shape metal, one of which is using large ball bearings. I know what happens when you put an open cavity in a piece of metal over a ball bearing and hit it with a hammer. It only concaves the outside edge, and does nothing to the inside, except possibly make it expand more...Depending on how much force is put on it, and how strong the side walls are.

If there was any legit way to save primer pockets and still be able to reuse some old brass, I would be all for it. But this method does not do that. I'm not trying to be "that guy", I'm just trying to put out factual information so nobody gets hurt, and nobody screws up their rifle.

 

[Pdvdh]

So is your explanation, advice, and recommendation based solely on your theoretical understanding? Or have you actually tried to restore a primer pocket?

I'm pretty very well versed in the theory and "principles of materials" also. In addition, I have actual experience with restoration of primer pockets using three different tools. All without gas leakage, dismemberment, injury, or death.

You think this is terribly dangerous? How does it differ from the judgements reloaders employ when determining whether to load and shoot a casing another time or two after the primer pocket has swelled a certain degree, and primers seat with less force than on the first priming of the case? You understand there are lots of decisions made by the typical reloader on a common basis? Not all issues and decisions boil down to unqualified yes and no. Which appears to be your response to the OP's solicitation for advice on restoring primer pockets. Perhaps he'd like to extend cartridge case life, without regard to your support or opposition to the practice.

 

[MudRunner2005]

There are lots of things here that can be argued, but until we put down some bases I don't think we'll ever agree. First, what do you constitute a "loose" primer pocket? And, when is one "too loose" and needs to be chunked? Also, it is quite common for a new piece of brass to be easier to prime after the first firing. Me personally, when I can seat a primer with very little resistance, that's when I chunk a case, because I don't run light loads in anything, so I don't want to risk bolt face damage.

I'm stating that this method of simply sitting it on top of a ball bearing and hitting a piece of metal with a hammer that's passing down through the case and out of the case mouth, is not going to restore a primer pocket to it's original glory. It will pinch the outside of the primer pocket giving a false impression that the entire pocket has been tightened back up, but without squeezing the whole head of the case, this is only a temporary bandaid. I think we can both agree on that. Also, when does a pocket need "restoration"... When it's falling out and won't even hold a primer, or when it's just slightly losing some seating resistance?

To me, the only legit primer pocket restoration is when you recycle it, it gets melted down, and then formed into new brass.

 

[bigedp51]

phorwath

Use the ball bearing method on a few cases and then use a crimp reamer or a swage and then see if the primer is still loose.

I have and its not a theory or wishful thinking, so grow up and stop your insults.