Primer Pocket Restoration

[Edd]

Now for the guessing. The coulds, mays, mights, and maybes...
My guess, based on that experience, is that it would require a stronger, thick-walled resizing die to withstand the expansion forces imposed on the die body. It might also require a press more on the order of a bullet manufacturing press to ensure longevity, like Corbin manufactures and sells. And it may be prone to shearing brass where high compression forces exist below the case web. A shallow entrance angle at the mouth of the die might prevent that shearing. But even then, it could require some machining cleanup of the extractor groove and case rim. But here's the biggest impediment I foresee... The extractor groove at the case head surrounds the primer pocket. This means the swage die would have nothing more than that air gap to press against, right where the maximum compression force is required to reduce the primer pocket diameter. How to overcome that, I know not...

The entrance angle with a 300 H&H die would be 1.92°. That's pretty shallow. You could decrease it by almost .25° by using a 375 H&H die.

 

[Pdvdh]

Brilliant skilz at over flaring the mouth of the primer pocket below and leaving more of the rounded edge of the primer unsupported.

Now show us your weakened mushroom shaped fired primers.

I picked up a .223 case at the range with a flared primer pocket like yours and it looked like the .223 case had a large rifle primer in it. You "may" be restoring primer pockets but you are leaving the top of the primer unsupported. And this can cause the primer to let go at this point and etch the bolt face. Brilliant skilz at deforming primer pockets.

Should that become a problem, rest assured you'ld be amongst the last to know. Because it's something you have no experience with, and odds are exceedingly high, you never will.
More unsolicited baseless opinion. Skip... skip... skip ... skip...

That's the sound of your malfunction and malfeasance. Can you hear it now? No, not possible for you. It interferes with your opinions. Your opinions are always correct. So are mine.
Big difference is, mine are based on experience. And yours based on nothing more than an unsatisfied ego.
Another post. Still no bad names? I am so respectful of even the worst of opinions.

 

[MNbogboy]

Not wanting to join this "match" I feel that my experiences might shed a little light on this subject.
Like anyone else, losing paid for brass to loose pockets bothered me.
After every deprime I inspected the side walls of the pocket with a penlight. A gray residue always started from the bottom of the pocket. After each successive firing the residue line got closer to the top. Once the "leakage" line reached the top a grey ring around the primer was evident and bolt head damage was present. My inspection routine had me discarding cases before they leaked (saving bolt heads and maybe my eyes).
Primer seating force also followed the visual inspection.
Obvious was the seal was becoming less & less from the pocket bottom. In response I started manually check/cleaning every pocket after all other case prep. I use a double/triple layer of paper towel dampened with rubbing alcohol on the end of a tool (Allen wrench) to wipe each pocket perfectly clean. I do this for all calibers small & large rifle. My theory is the quicker the "seal" the less the leakage and erosion of the pocket walls.
I believe that is doubling the usable pocket life in my Ackley's. Even as the seating force lessens there is no visible leakage.
When the seating force becomes very light I still trash them but I know they haven't burned a bolt head.
My guess is that erosion as well as expansion are taking place. But it does start at the bottom. If the web part of the case head could be swedged like one of the posters mentioned it may work.
The ball bearing crimp method may also allow the primer to completely seal before it leaks but not at the bottom. Also I can't imagine what the web area looks like inside after it is hammered with a bolt inside. Fracturing the brass in this area is possible and that would be at the worst possible spot.
My .02 for what it's worth

 

[Pdvdh]

The entrance angle with a 300 H&H die would be 1.92°. That's pretty shallow. You could decrease it by almost .25° by using a 375 H&H die.

That would be the easy part. How to compress air to the level required to swage down the primer pocket beneath the extractor groove. That's the tough one.
I also have done what you suggest to reduce the case web diameter on my 338 Lapua brass, because the 3 sets of Whidden custom resizing dies were all manufactured over-sized at that location.
Rather than pester them a 4th time, I ground off the top and bottom of one of their non-functional dies, and use it to resize the sidewall just above the case web with a second resizing step. A bit of a hassle, but 100% functional.

This is powder puff, compared to the compressive forces necessary to swage down the primer pocket and case head surrounding the primer pocket. Because that area is closer to solid brass, than the hollow, thin-walled sidewall above the case web.

But your idea has merit. In the end, it may prove too costly, unless it proves possible and successful with standard resizing dies and reloading presses.

 

[Pdvdh]

Not wanting to join this "match" I feel that my experiences might shed a little light on this subject.
Like anyone else, losing paid for brass to loose pockets bothered me.
After every deprime I inspected the side walls of the pocket with a penlight. A gray residue always started from the bottom of the pocket. After each successive firing the residue line got closer to the top. Once the "leakage" line reached the top a grey ring around the primer was evident and bolt head damage was present. My inspection routine had me discarding cases before they leaked (saving bolt heads and maybe my eyes).
Primer seating force also followed the visual inspection.
Obvious was the seal was becoming less & less from the pocket bottom. In response I started manually check/cleaning every pocket after all other case prep. I use a double/triple layer of paper towel dampened with rubbing alcohol on the end of a tool (Allen wrench) to wipe each pocket perfectly clean. I do this for all calibers small & large rifle. My theory is the quicker the "seal" the less the leakage and erosion of the pocket walls.
I believe that is doubling the usable pocket life in my Ackley's. Even as the seating force lessens there is no visible leakage.
When the seating force becomes very light I still trash them but I know they haven't burned a bolt head.
My guess is that erosion as well as expansion are taking place. But it does start at the bottom. If the web part of the case head could be swedged like one of the posters mentioned it may work.
The ball bearing crimp method may also allow the primer to completely seal before it leaks but not at the bottom. Also I can't imagine what the web area looks like inside after it is hammered with a bolt inside. Fracturing the brass in this area is possible and that would be at the worst possible spot.
My .02 for what it's worth

Only the OP could confirm whether or not his goal was to return the primer pocket to original, as manufactured, condition. I and others don't think that was the intension.

Most processes require common sense to understand what can, and cannot, be accomplished. That's included in the my use of the term skilz. You obviously possess skilz.

Nice to get input from someone with hand's on experience. Makes ALL the difference. Thanks for your value-added post.

 

[Pdvdh]

Finally, back to the OP.
The tbrice23 method is explained in a separate Thread, which should not be difficult to find using the search feature.
Unlike some, I will note my lack of experience (in this instance - with 243Win cases). I have no experience salvaging primer pockets on 243Win casings.

The tbrice23 method has provided the best end result/product, at the least cost, of the 3 methods I've used over the years. Contrary to what others lead you to expect, I've suffered no damage to my firearms, or my body.

That being said, I do not believe the tbrice23 method will work for the 243 cases your post addressed. Only a guy with experience will know what I share next. This means bigedp51 has no idea what's to follow.

The hardened bolt that's inserted and hammered against the flash hole area on the inside of the cases has to be sufficiently large in diameter to prevent the bolt head collapsing the interior primer pocket, blowing it out toward the case head.

Large primer pockets measure about 0.208" - inner diameter. The mouth of a fired .243 case neck will be on the order of ~0.249". Which means the grade 8 bolt inserted into the case neck is limited to about 0.250", or a bit less.
(0.250 - 0.208)/2 = 0.021"
0.021" is the maximum consistent overlap possible around the perimeter of the hollow primer pocket. That's simply not sufficient overlap. The 0.025" diameter bolt will blow out the primer pocket before the case head edge of the primer pocket will be reduced in ID.

So I cannot recommend the tbrice23 method for your 243Win cases. I see no obvious workaround. I believe you will need to explore, and use, another method and tools.

I hated sharing this detail with bigedp51, only because it risks his becoming a better informed "expert", and antagonist.

But for the greater good I have done so. After all, odds are outstanding he'll 'skip' right past this detail due to a lack of experience, understanding, and possibly more.

 

[bigedp51]

phorwath

Below more of your "Skilz" at reloading, ejector marks on your 30-06 cases.

Max pressure for the 30-06 is 60,000 psi and you loaded these cases to over 70,000 psi causing brass flow and ejector marks. And Lapua brass is some of the hardest brass on the commercial market.

Did you ever think if you didn't load so hot and over max pressure your primer pockets would not stretch.

So in closing your "Skilz" at reloading are simply amazing, so thank you for your expert advice on how to stretch primer pockets.

 

[Pdvdh]

Again, is your comprehension really so poor and failing? Who asked you? Do you seriously think only you have that superior knowledge?

If I wanted to run powder-puff pressures, I'd load like you evidently do. Of course you have no need or experience tightening up primer pockets. You run black powder pressures. Leave the big boys to this discussion.

Maybe you should stop reloading and shooting altogether. Completely retreat to your snowflake "safe" area.

If you think the majority of the membership on this Forum doesn't understand the consequence of elevated pressure, you truly place yourself on highest of elevated pedestals. You really do think that you alone possess the superior wisdom. The more you spout forward, the better everyone's understanding.

Your posts constitute a display of nothing more than inexperience, and arrogance. And still not a bad name have I uttered. You must really admire me now!

The lower you go, the higher you lift me. So by all means, keep it up. You actually make this all worthy of the effort... in spite of the condescension imvolved.

Shall we expect your Hodgdon expert, and the others, anytime soon?

 

[Pdvdh]

I'm reserving this space for you, bigedp51... My pal.

 

[bigedp51]

So that's the best excuse you can come up with for stretching your cases beyond their elastic limits. Again your "skilz" at reloading are amazing and I bet I'm not the only one impressed by your "skillz".

Below is your photo of all the cases you ruined simply because you load over max pressure.

And then you claim to be a expert "restoring" stretched out primer pockets.

Thank you for showing us what "NOT" to do when reloading and how to make our primer pockets last longer.

 

[Pdvdh]

So that's the best excuse you can come up with for stretching your cases beyond their elastic limits. Again your "skilz" at reloading are amazing and I bet I'm not the only one impressed by your "skillz".

Below is your photo of all the cases you ruined simply because you load over max pressure.

And then you claim to be a expert "restoring" stretched out primer pockets.

Thank you for showing us what "NOT" to do when reloading and how to make our primer pockets last longer.

Mr. Ed,
I'm saving you another post slot.

Entertain us further with your superior intellect, and lack of experience. And still no name calling. That must so disappoint you.
Can you tell you've got my full attention?
Still awaiting your team of experts... skip... skip... skip...

 

[Rich Coyle]

bigedp51,

It seems you still don't get it. A guy loads the way he loads, which perhaps is not like you load, and stretches primer pockets. Then he uses the cases longer than you would. He is not trying to get you to load like him or use reclaimed overused cases like he does; and some others here have because the cases were not available.