Jack Sherwood
Member
I have a 99A Savage my Dad bought me as my first deer rifle in 1971 when I was 7yrs old.
Still have that rifle and many deer, pigs and coyotes have fallen to a 100gr Silvertip since.
Oh yeah, and 3 elk!
Planning a 250 Savage Build - Two Barrels, Many Questions
- Thread starter OutsideBill
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Still have that rifle and many deer, pigs and coyotes have fallen to a 100gr Silvertip since.
Oh yeah, and 3 elk!
std7mag
Well-Known Member
@OutsideBill,
If you're sending it to a smith, have you considered reaming it 250 Savage AI?
Speed wise it would put you even with a 257 Roberts.
If you're sending it to a smith, have you considered reaming it 250 Savage AI?
Speed wise it would put you even with a 257 Roberts.
BEWARE: SAAMI spec reamers do not work well at all with CIP (European) spec reamers. Many have been busted hard on this issue. Web on brass maybe too large for dia of the web on brand new brass!
I have considered that. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to start with the standard 250 Savage and see how it performs. I'm really hoping to have a gun that my grandsons can shoot comfortably that will kill a deer or hog out past 100 yards. As a boy I found the model 99 in 250 Savage to be quiet and accurate, with very little recoil. My nephew still has the rifle, and it has killed a lot of game. It could easily change into something else if it doesn't match my hopes and expectations. The 250 AI would seem like an easy bump.
Is that a bad thing? The creedmoor cartridges are generally really good - efficient, potent at long range, adaptable to different bullets, etc.
Thanks for the warning. Hopefully I won't have to worry about that as I'm hoping to keep stay with the current chambering.
Update and questions on the 250 Savage build. I now plan to build two rifles.
First up will be a basic hunting rifle for my grandson capable of taking whitetails and hogs out to 200 yards. I picked the 250 Savage based on nostalgia, and very mild recoil and report relative to performance. I went with the Axis action due to cost versus the 110. For this gun I have in hand a Shaw barrel with a 10 twist in sporter profile, and a new Axis youth model with a 7mm-08 barrel that we'll keep for future steps up the performance ladder.
Second gun will be a heavier bench/hunting gun for me and the boys to play with and learn with. I have in hand a 26" Shilen barrel with a 10 twist in a heavy varmint profile. I also have a new Axis II with wood stock in .243 Win. This is a really nice little rifle right now, and it's gonna hurt to take it apart, but I can put it all back together if I want.
First observation/potential problem: The chambers on the two barrels are obviously different, and I'm having concerns about head space on the Shaw barrel. With the two barrels laying on my bench and a box of factory 100g Hornady in hand, I decided to just see how the ammo felt in each chamber.
With the Shilen barrel a new round slips in smoothly and bottoms out with a nice snug fit, and there is .138 of brass sticking out. I can barely feel a tiny amount of movement when I wiggle the base. The round slips out just as smoothly with zero resistance.
With the Shaw barrel a new round slips in smoothly, but doesn't fit as snugly. I can feel slightly more movement when I wiggle the base of the round. When I first measured, I got .137 of brass sticking out, but I can push the brass in to about .134 with my thumb. When I pull it out, it has some initial resistance as if the bullet is slightly stuck, especially if I've pushed it in harder with my thumb.
When I installed the Shaw barrel on the action, I first set the headspace with a new go-gauge and used one layer of tape to check no-go. When I chambered a new round, there was some resistance on closing the bolt. I had the ejector and extractor removed from the bolt, and the round stayed in the barrel. I had to use a cleaning rod with a slight bump to remove it. I installed the extractor and used a marker on the bullet and neck, then I cycled the round. It extracted but with a bit of force needed to lift the bolt. I found a clean ring all the way around the bullet a few thousandths above the neck. I wasn't sure if the bullet was touching the entry to the free bore, or the leading edge of the lands. I was able to reset the headspace with one layer of tape for the go setting, and two layers for the no-go. This resolved the issue and a new round chambers and extracts smoothly.
This morning with the barrel removed I marked up another bullet and chambered it with thumb pressure. In the attached photo you can hopefully see the faint contact ring around the bullet ogive.
I decided to see if this group has thoughts on what's going on and if I need to make changes before finishing this rifle.? Do I set it up with one layer of tape for the go and two layers for no-go?
Also, I'm thinking interchangeability of reloaded ammo between these two rifles may be a problem.?
First up will be a basic hunting rifle for my grandson capable of taking whitetails and hogs out to 200 yards. I picked the 250 Savage based on nostalgia, and very mild recoil and report relative to performance. I went with the Axis action due to cost versus the 110. For this gun I have in hand a Shaw barrel with a 10 twist in sporter profile, and a new Axis youth model with a 7mm-08 barrel that we'll keep for future steps up the performance ladder.
Second gun will be a heavier bench/hunting gun for me and the boys to play with and learn with. I have in hand a 26" Shilen barrel with a 10 twist in a heavy varmint profile. I also have a new Axis II with wood stock in .243 Win. This is a really nice little rifle right now, and it's gonna hurt to take it apart, but I can put it all back together if I want.
First observation/potential problem: The chambers on the two barrels are obviously different, and I'm having concerns about head space on the Shaw barrel. With the two barrels laying on my bench and a box of factory 100g Hornady in hand, I decided to just see how the ammo felt in each chamber.
With the Shilen barrel a new round slips in smoothly and bottoms out with a nice snug fit, and there is .138 of brass sticking out. I can barely feel a tiny amount of movement when I wiggle the base. The round slips out just as smoothly with zero resistance.
With the Shaw barrel a new round slips in smoothly, but doesn't fit as snugly. I can feel slightly more movement when I wiggle the base of the round. When I first measured, I got .137 of brass sticking out, but I can push the brass in to about .134 with my thumb. When I pull it out, it has some initial resistance as if the bullet is slightly stuck, especially if I've pushed it in harder with my thumb.
When I installed the Shaw barrel on the action, I first set the headspace with a new go-gauge and used one layer of tape to check no-go. When I chambered a new round, there was some resistance on closing the bolt. I had the ejector and extractor removed from the bolt, and the round stayed in the barrel. I had to use a cleaning rod with a slight bump to remove it. I installed the extractor and used a marker on the bullet and neck, then I cycled the round. It extracted but with a bit of force needed to lift the bolt. I found a clean ring all the way around the bullet a few thousandths above the neck. I wasn't sure if the bullet was touching the entry to the free bore, or the leading edge of the lands. I was able to reset the headspace with one layer of tape for the go setting, and two layers for the no-go. This resolved the issue and a new round chambers and extracts smoothly.
This morning with the barrel removed I marked up another bullet and chambered it with thumb pressure. In the attached photo you can hopefully see the faint contact ring around the bullet ogive.
I decided to see if this group has thoughts on what's going on and if I need to make changes before finishing this rifle.? Do I set it up with one layer of tape for the go and two layers for no-go?
Also, I'm thinking interchangeability of reloaded ammo between these two rifles may be a problem.?
Attachments
1raggedhole
Well-Known Member
It would be a good idea to keep the brass separated. The Shilen chamber is likely more/less a match grade chamber. The Shaw likely more of a production- type although it will probably shoot well, too.
Never, expect two chambers to be identical unless chambered with the same reamer. Also, they'd need to be chambered back to back. That's the closest you'll get to identical chambers.
I agree with 1raggedhole, you're better off keeping the brass seperate for each rifle in the long run. It would also works better for reloading if you have a dedicated die set for each rifle. Especially since you've now customized the headspace on the rifle with the Shaw barrel.
Once you've fired the brass in your Shaw barrel, you'll want to resize your brass minimally. If you use one set of dies, you'll have to constantly adjust them for the rifle you're reloading for. So that's why I suggest a die set for each.
I agree with 1raggedhole, you're better off keeping the brass seperate for each rifle in the long run. It would also works better for reloading if you have a dedicated die set for each rifle. Especially since you've now customized the headspace on the rifle with the Shaw barrel.
Once you've fired the brass in your Shaw barrel, you'll want to resize your brass minimally. If you use one set of dies, you'll have to constantly adjust them for the rifle you're reloading for. So that's why I suggest a die set for each.
I was pretty sure I'd be getting that advice to not mix reloads. Hadn't considered needing separate dies.
You dont need seperate die sets, it'll just make your life easier. Once you have your sizing die set up to resize your case the very minimum amout necessary for your rifle, it's easier to leave it. If you use one die set for both rifles and you forget to go through the die set up process each time one of two things could occur.
One your reloads will not chamber in your Shilen barrel, because the case is to large for that chamber. Two you stretch your brass and create failures in it after a few firings, because it's undersized for your Shaw barrel. This is especially true since you have two different headspacings.
It's usually cheaper and easier to buy two complete die sets than run just two different sizing dies. Simply because it's more expensive to buy the dies you need separately. You don't even need to buy the most expensive dies to reload with, you can build adequate ammunition for most of your needs with used or Lee Dies.
I mostly have RCBS die sets, because they're what I started with. However I also have Lee on the low end, and then I have die sets I've spent $200+. The Lee dies have built me a lot of good .308, .30-30 and .38 SPC/.357 Mag ammunition. It isn't competition grade ammunition, but it's as good as some of the best factory hunting ammunition that I've ever purchased.
Makes sense. I haven't actually set head space for either yet. I pulled the Shaw barrel off because I need to clean out the threads on the front scope mounting hole.
Do you see any issue with setting the head space on the Shaw barrel with one layer of tape in order get the bullet off the contact point? Do I need to consider that I might have too tight a throat in this barrel?
I just look as it as headspace. It really doesn't matter where you set it as long as you're not stretching the brass to failure when you fireform the brass. So set it how you like, just realize you're always going to have a non standard chamber after that.
However I haven't read all your posts. Is the Shaw barrel used or new? If it is new, I'd send it back to Shaw to look at. I'd say your throat is a little short, and it would be better to have the throat cut at least .020" deeper.
I like to fix things that are out of spec, and make it right. I'm not confident that the thickness of the tape you're using is going to solve your issues 100% of the time. I know you're trying to do a budget build, but you've already doubled your costs by building two different rifles. So since you're already in this deep, I'd pay to fix the throat and keep the chamber in SAAMI spec.
However I haven't read all your posts. Is the Shaw barrel used or new? If it is new, I'd send it back to Shaw to look at. I'd say your throat is a little short, and it would be better to have the throat cut at least .020" deeper.
I like to fix things that are out of spec, and make it right. I'm not confident that the thickness of the tape you're using is going to solve your issues 100% of the time. I know you're trying to do a budget build, but you've already doubled your costs by building two different rifles. So since you're already in this deep, I'd pay to fix the throat and keep the chamber in SAAMI spec.
