Optimizing Precision And Accuracy From VLD Bullets By Eric Stecker

[wbaskins]

I also have a 300 ultra mag in Browning A Bolt, I have tried just about every bullet out there and most were just OK nothing to brag about. Last year I pulled the bullet out as far as the magazine would allow ( I actually ground the magazine down some with a small grinder) switched to the burger 168 gr. VLD and my MOA was really improved. I went from 5 shot groups of 2 inches at 100 yds. to 5 shot groups of 3/4 inch. Then I moved the bullet back a little more and finally its shooting closer to 1/2 inch groups. I found my sweet spot pretty quick (got lucky) I really think thats about as good as its going to get with the browning.
Good Luck on that sweet spot its there somewhere.

 

[Nellie]

Im a newbie to reloading and have a SIG SHR 970 in 30.06. I would like to try the Berger 168 vld hunting? 22" barrell with a 1:10 twist
Any data will help and wanna try them on game in South Africa.
Tx

 

[Greyfox]

Excellent article! I have been shooting two 6.5x284 rifles, a Cooper and a Savage for a while and have used the 140 gr Berger Hunting VLD's. The throats on these rifle differ by .025", the Savage being longer. OAL for my load being approximately 3.010" for the Cooper.. Interestingly, the sweet spot is .075" from the lands plus or minus .010" for both rifles. Less than ..010 from the lands was producing pressure signs. Tested between .010 and .100". I used 59 gr of Retumbo, Fed 215 primer. Velocity runs between the two rifles is 2965 and 3015 FPS. Both rifles produce consistent .25-.5MOA, tested out to 500 yards. At the other depths ran .5-1MOA. At 100 yards. I have shot 11 deer and antelope from 200- 1000 yards, all except one broad side shots In the chest area. All broadside were 1" entrance 2-3" exit wounds with major internal damage and no animal moving more than 20 yards from impact, 9 dropping in there tracks. Never retrieved a bullet to see what they looked like. I really like these bullets!!!

 

[johnnyk]

Nellie,
Welcome to LRH! Check with Bergers website (Berger_Bullets) as I think you can get load data/advise there.

Greyfox, I agree.

I saved this article to my desktop a while back and put it to use today. I too am shooting a Savage 6.5-284Norma but using the 130gn VLD Hunting. I tried several powders with all the bullets into the LaG's hoping to get lucky and find a good combo. Talk about frustrating!
I re-read this article and decided what the heck. I started out with a powder I have had great accuracy with in this rifle so far and that is AA3100 . A max load of 54.5gn had proven the most accurate previously at 2.5330". I watched groups slowly shrink the farther away the bullet got from the rifling. I stopped at 2.443" (.090" off) with a group of .379". So far this is the best the 130gn Bergers have grouped but I am going to try one more group @ 2.403 or .0130" off. Always hunting that elusive "one-holer". Now I'll have to go get more 130's and AA3100.
I love it when deer season ends and I can start reloading again (I wonder if that's considered a love/hate relationship?). JohnnyK.

 

[bowhunthard88]

I have a question, probably a stupid one, haha. I am going to shoot VLDs out of my 7mm Rem Mag. I have both the 140s and the 168s. If I find the jump for the 140s, do I need to still find the jump for the 168s? Is the jump bullet specific, or rifle specific?

Very informative article.

Thanks.

 

[Eric Stecker]

Nellie,

If you don't find what you are looking for on our website you can send an email directly to Walt Berger at [email protected]. Give him your case and bullet details and he will provide you with load data. It is Min~Max data since we don't regard "accurate loads" as being genuine since each rifle is likely to shoot best with a load that is tuned for that rifle rather than a load that worked best in another rifle. They work sometimes but not often enough for us to list them.

Bowhunthard,

This is a good question. First it is important to clarify that the ogive shape for the 7mm 140 gr VLD and the 168 gr VLD are not the same. Since they are not the same you will have different jump (or jam) if you don't change your seating die.

Now let's assume that you knew that fact and were asking that if one VLD bullet has a sweet spot of .075 jump (for example) will another VLD bullet also shoot well at .075. Frankly, I don't know. The fact that the ogive shape is different and the weight is different suggests that it won't shoot the same (I expect your powder charge will be different as well) but I can't say for sure that it will be different.

Another aspect of this question to consider is that what happens when you switch between bullet weights that have the same ogive shape like the 7mm 168 gr VLD and 180 gr VLD. Both of these bullets have the same ogive shape. Will these bullets have the same sweet spot? Again, unfortunatley, I don't know.

If it were me, I'd certainly start with the same jump (or jam) to see if the sweet spot is the same for both bullets. If it is then your tuning is done (and please post the results as I am curious myself). If it isn't the same sweet spot then you know exactly what to do to find the sweet spot for the other bullet.

Regards,
Eric

 

[hueco3]

Does this second sweet spot adjustment only apply to mag calibers or would it pertain equally to a .308?

 

[Mike 338]

Eric,

Just a bug in your ear to develop additional .338 offerings. 225ish & 250ish grains for the us Win Mag guys who aren't toting a Lapua's up and down mountains would be awesome.

Also, thanks to Berger for being the type of company that remains open to the input of it's users. It seems that no other company would modify their position as you have regarding best accuracy practices for their product, all based upon what those in the field are telling you.

 

[Eric Stecker]

Hueco3,

Frankly, all I can tell you is that we don't know if a second sweet spot is needed (or if all bullets shoot in the same sweet spot) for either a magnum or standard cartridge. This brings up an interesting question that hasn't been covered yet.

Mike,

Thank you for your kind words. As far as I am concerned, shooters know more about shooting than anyone so their opinions and ideas matter most to me.

Admittedly, I have to consider what is possible and not possible (or much more difficult) but if we can try it to see if it works I'm all for it. As a shooter myself I am as excited about exploring new ground as anyone.

We do get feedback sometimes that we offer too many options and I understand this point. However, I don't see myself changing my stripes on this subject.

Regards,
Eric

 

[Boogaloo]

Sorry to bring the thread back from the dead, but I am hoping Eric or someone might have some info on using this test for a .223 Ackley I just got done putting together.

I have purchased a LOT of Bergers for this rifle thinking that I may have decent results with some or all of them.

The bullets I have in hand are:

90 VLD
82 BT Target
80.5 BT Target
80 VLD

As you can see, I went all in with Berger planning for this rifle.
So far, I have had great results with first shot hits on steel all the way out to 1000 yards, but have been unimpressed with the 5 shot grouping on paper @ 100 yards. I know it seems odd, but it is true.

I started this journey immediately after fire forming brand new Lapua match brass, so the only data I have is based on seating the 90's, 82's and 80's all at .035 off the lands in fire formed brass using CFE223 and Win WSR primers.

The measured velocities for each bullet were:

90 VLD @ 2629 FPS avg (5 shots)
82 BT TARGET @ 2838 FPS avg (5 shots)
80 VLD @ 2896 FPS avg (5 shots)

Shooting conditions were 950 ft. ASL, 84*F, Rel. Humidity 56% and 29.86 in/hg.

Rifle has a Brux (4 groove) 1:7 twist @ 24"

None of the listed bullets delivered exceptional groups on paper @ 100 yards, but EVERY bullet allowed me to ring a 12" piece of steel @ 1000 yards once I got the dope dialed for that particular bullet.

The 82 BT Target delivered EXCEPTIONAL accuracy @ 600 yards on steel, for a group that measured roughly 2-1/2"

After reading this article, I think I am going to try the jump ladder test with each of the bullets I have, and see where I end up on paper. I have over 1000 of each of these bullets on hand, so I really need to try and find out where the sweet spot is with each of them without wasting a bunch of them in the process.

Any suggestions?

 

[Scot E]

Sorry to bring the thread back from the dead, but I am hoping Eric or someone might have some info on using this test for a .223 Ackley I just got done putting together.

I have purchased a LOT of Bergers for this rifle thinking that I may have decent results with some or all of them.

The bullets I have in hand are:

90 VLD
82 BT Target
80.5 BT Target
80 VLD

As you can see, I went all in with Berger planning for this rifle.
So far, I have had great results with first shot hits on steel all the way out to 1000 yards, but have been unimpressed with the 5 shot grouping on paper @ 100 yards. I know it seems odd, but it is true.

I started this journey immediately after fire forming brand new Lapua match brass, so the only data I have is based on seating the 90's, 82's and 80's all at .035 off the lands in fire formed brass using CFE223 and Win WSR primers.

The measured velocities for each bullet were:

90 VLD @ 2629 FPS avg (5 shots)
82 BT TARGET @ 2838 FPS avg (5 shots)
80 VLD @ 2896 FPS avg (5 shots)

Shooting conditions were 950 ft. ASL, 84*F, Rel. Humidity 56% and 29.86 in/hg.

Rifle has a Brux (4 groove) 1:7 twist @ 24"

None of the listed bullets delivered exceptional groups on paper @ 100 yards, but EVERY bullet allowed me to ring a 12" piece of steel @ 1000 yards once I got the dope dialed for that particular bullet.

The 82 BT Target delivered EXCEPTIONAL accuracy @ 600 yards on steel, for a group that measured roughly 2-1/2"

After reading this article, I think I am going to try the jump ladder test with each of the bullets I have, and see where I end up on paper. I have over 1000 of each of these bullets on hand, so I really need to try and find out where the sweet spot is with each of them without wasting a bunch of them in the process.

Any suggestions?

Not sure why you are concerned with 100 yards when your 600 yard group is under .5 MOA!

There are a number of bullets, Bergers included, that don't stabilize completely until further distances. Try 200 yards and see if you don't get better results.

There could be other issues but this one is very likely considering the 600 and 1000 yard examples you gave.

HTH,

Scot E.

 

[Boogaloo]

Not sure why you are concerned with 100 yards when your 600 yard group is under .5 MOA!

There are a number of bullets, Bergers included, that don't stabilize completely until further distances. Try 200 yards and see if you don't get better results.

There could be other issues but this one is very likely considering the 600 and 1000 yard examples you gave.

HTH,

Scot E.

Thank you Scot,

I guess I am not really all that concerned about grouping on 100 yard paper when these bullets obviously perform well at greater distances. I do however use 100 yard paper to validate zero before I start reaching out with any platform at my local range.

I like your idea of trying to see what they do @ 200 however, and I had not even thought about the fact that they may not stabilize (well) until beyond 100 yards?

I will admit that I was ultra impressed with the group @ 600 yards using the 82 BT Target bullets. The 82's were basically an impulse buy that I made when I could not find any of the 80 VLD's at that particular point in time. The G1 BC numbers for the 82's being .432 vs .444 for the 80 VLD's was impressive enough for me to buy 10 boxes of them since they looked pretty good on paper when working up data in Quickload and QuickTarget.

I guess I will go back out with these same loads @ .035 off the lands as well as a batch using the jump ladder and see where they end up.

 

[Divey]

This is a sensational thread and thanks to the guys from Berger to spend a little of the precious time to answer some questions.
I have read the entire thread and am very keen to do some testing with the Jam and Jump very much in my mind.

I'd like to ask a question.

What would be the preferred Berger projectile to use in a 308 Norma Magnum based on a Mark X Mauser Action with a 24" barrel and a 1-10 twist rate. It's a rather heavy profile barrel.

What would be the best choice... the 190 grain VLD's or the 210 grain VLD's. ?

I want to give this Long Range Hunting a fling on some feral goats and fallow deer.

 

[farpiece]

Gents,
Just bought a Savage 12 LRP - 260 Remington. I'm planning on reloading with VLD 140g, Lapua brass, H4350, and CCI primers. Think I'm go to go, just need help to determine the best method of measuring COAL. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Oh, new to hand loading so, if I ask stupid questions, please bear with me.