Degrees Of Rifle Accuracy by Ian McMurchy

[wm5l]

I liked the article. You compared the TC Encores to a high end custom rig. I don't have any custom guns. However I have 4 Encores. Two of them are 15" pistols that shoot VERY good groups I feel for a pistol. The .223 Rem likes "cheap" Remington ammo and will shoot .350 groups all day at 100yds. One is in 7mm-08 and it does a little better than 1" with factory ammo if you do your part. The one that drives me crazy is the 28" pro hunter. I had high hopes for it. I was looking for a tack driver when I bought it. I cant seem to get it to shoot anything under 2" groups. Some of them are 3+. I have tried 30 different hand loads. My little model seven rem in 7mm-08 will out shoot it. (2" groups when breaking in the barrel with the 25lb factory trigger).I guess some of them just don't shoot out of the box! I said I had 4 encores. The last one is a 12" 454 Casull. I can't really tell how accurate it is because of the vicious recoilgun). I struggle to shoot it well because of that. The muzzle blast will make up for the missed shot ha ha......Jim

 

[CoachChris]

I first read this article after buying my Vanguard. Mine is a Syn. Vanguard 7 RM, not a "sub-MOA". I was able to get 4 shots grouped smaller than a quarter off my backpack at 200 yds. feeding her 150 gr. Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertips. The trigger is crisp and clean. I think I lucked out.
My next Vanguard is likely to be a "sub-MOA" Varminter. Not sure of caliber.

Chris

 

[bigg_sexy1]

Excellent article Ian. I enjoyed you insight on rifle accuracy.

 

[justgoto]

Learn to shoot in wind. Matter of fact we should practice in lousy weather

I do that whenever I get the chance.

YouTube - Winchester 30-30, 4" Jar at 100 Yards, 30-40mph Winds

Sometimes it is pretty challenging.

YouTube - Winchester 30-30 and 30-40mph Winds

I was thinking on getting a Weatherby Vanguard SUB-MOA rifle, I really want one of those but I think in will have to settle for a Marlin bolt action rifle with scope. Those are the only rifles in my price range. :/

Of course I should probably just get scope mounts and rings for my 30-30, that is more in my price range.

 

[wm5l]

I liked the article. You compared the TC Encores to a high end custom rig. I don't have any custom guns. However I have 4 Encores. Two of them are 15" pistols that shoot VERY good groups I feel for a pistol. The .223 Rem likes "cheap" Remington ammo and will shoot .350 groups all day at 100yds. One is in 7mm-08 and it does a little better than 1" with factory ammo if you do your part. The one that drives me crazy is the 28" pro hunter. I had high hopes for it. I was looking for a tack driver when I bought it. I cant seem to get it to shoot anything under 2" groups. Some of them are 3+. I have tried 30 different hand loads. My little model seven rem in 7mm-08 will out shoot it. (2" groups when breaking in the barrel with the 25lb factory trigger).I guess some of them just don't shoot out of the box! I said I had 4 encores. The last one is a 12" 454 Casull. I can't really tell how accurate it is because of the vicious recoilgun). I struggle to shoot it well because of that. The muzzle blast will make up for the missed shot ha ha......Jim

Here is a little update on the 7mm-08 PISTOL. 46.2 grains of H414 and a "Cheap" Hornady 139 gr BTSP will get you this EVERYDAY! I normally just load 3 or 4 for testing loads so I don't have any 5 shot groups to brag about. I am still learning to shoot the pistol the same way every time.

 

[RMulhern]

I can sum this up in three words!

FACTORY RIFLES SUCK!!

 

[Haagen Dazs]

It really is a shame he passed away at a relatively young age. I hate finding out about a great Canadian shooter who I never got to respect before he passed away.


Great article though. I'm loving my Savage 12 223. Allthough, I'd use the word 'precision' in place of accuracy in the article; these two words are often mixed up.

 

[JP100]

I can sum this up in three words!

FACTORY RIFLES SUCK!!

Id have to disagree. We own two tikkas one in .223 and one .243 they both shoot half inch with hand loads and shoot around 1.5 to 1 inch with different factory ammo. these are standard guns with no adjustments and they shoot better than most people can. I also did some reloading for a mate who also has a .243 Tikka and the first hand load I made up shot just inside a inch. they are easy to load for and will shoot nearly all ammo. The Tikka .223 shoots 1/2 inch groups with cheap russian ammo with steel cases.

 

[glewis]

I've been intrigued by hunting rifle accuracy on a budget for years now. It's my mid-life crisis. I research a reputable budget gun (<$750) with the features I want, make a purchase after finding my best price, check the action screws, add good quality mounts and optics(leupold,nikon,meopta, zeiss), follow a barrel break-in procedure, and shoot factory ammo at a sturdy bench set-up. If the gun doesn't feature a bedded stock I upgrade to an aftermarket stock that does. Mounting scopes and swapping stocks while using a fat boy torque wrench is about the extent of my gunsmithing patience. I've recently purchased my sixth and final bolt action factory rifle. All six have flat bottom receivers, very little creep to crisp factory trigger pulls, five have trigger pull wts ranging from 2.5-3.5 lbs, five have free float barrels, and five use fully bedded alum block systems.

What I've found is that in order to produce 1" or less groups, one has to be really patient with regard to set-up and technique. Between my aging eyes and a thumper of a heart beat, I may not be able to deliver the techinque on a consistent basis.

Bottom line of this exercise is, all six kill deer equally well.

 

[jlrookstool]

Does any one know what moa group I could expect from match 300 WM out of a Sendero with a decent scope?

 

[Damascus]

Does any one know what moa group I could expect from match 300 WM out of a Sendero with a decent scope?

When I purchased my Win M70 Laredo in .300WM (basically the Winchester version of your Sendero - mine has a 26" heavy contour barrel, with a good stock, I believe it's an H-S Precision stock)... Mine shot about 0.9 MOA out of the box using match 190gr. SMK handloads, but after break-in, groups shrank to .75 MOA, and after "properly" bedding the action to the blocks, installing an aftermarket trigger, and squaring up my receiver, recoil lug, and barrel, it now shoots an average of .42 MOA with its favorite loads. I would expect similar results from your Sendero, as I believe on average, Rem 700's are a tad bit more accurate out of the box than Win 70's are... from my own past experience - not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[FAL Shot]

SOME FACTORY RIFLES DO NOT SUCK

I will list the factory rifles I have that are 1 MOA or better right out of the box with proper ammunition:

BSA Lonestar .25 cal precharged pneumatic air rifle. BSA was/is famous for its hammer forged match barrels and adjustable match grade triggers in their precharged pneumatics. FEED IT MATCH GRADE PELLETS, and it will amaze you.

CZ 452 American in .22LR. The best single stage trigger in any rifle I ever owned. It just gets better and better the more I shoot it, like any good CZ firearm should be. Hundreds of PD's have fallen to this rifle, and other varmints as well. I couldn't be more happy if it were an Anschutz.

CZ 527 American Varmint in .204 Ruger, pressure bedded 26" heavy barrel and walnut stocked. The perfect walking varmint rifle. Hits are seen in the scope, and it's as fast as any .22-250. I take shots with this rifle I would pass up with the .223 Rem on a windy day.

CZ 527 Kevlar Varmint in .223 Rem, free floated 24" heavy barrel in HS Precision stock. Both these CZ 527 varmint rifles can pull off long strings of rapid fire that far surpass the .22-250 before barrel heating becomes an issue. Your best accessories for these CZ 527 heavy barrelled rifles are spare magazines if you shoot PD's.....and a ton of ammo. These hammer forged CZ barrels seem to be military grade in that they shoot very well even when hot. 60 rounds between cleanings is common, with little noticeable falloff in accuracy. I just decide to take a break and clean the barrel.

IMBEL produced metric FN FAL sold by Springfield Armory as the SAR 4800. sub MOA with Ballistic Tip handloads. You need to let the barrel cool between 20-round magazines of fire for full accuracy. It has an X-Ring deresonator on the barrel, so it is not factory stock. However, the X-ring deresonator was only necessary to retune the barrel after adding the military folding bipod, which brought it back to sub MOA accuracy as before adding the bipod. The barrel is chrome lined, so copper fouling is extremely light and very easy to remove. This rifle stays accurate with little maintenance, as any military rifle should. It is possible to go thousands of rounds before cleaning of the gas system is necessary, just give the barrel a quick cleaning at the end of shooting. I have gone 200 rounds without cleaning the barrel, and it stays accurate. These rifles would go for around $2000 in today's market (DSA Arms sells similar rifles, made in the USA). The design life of the receiver is 80,000 full power military rounds. Your bolt gun is probably not that strong. I have owned two of these rifles, and they shot the same group sizes with the same ammo. I would rate this the most important rifle I have ever owned, because it is accurate, has long range firepower, unfailing reliability that is much better than a bolt gun in a high stress defensive situation, and very manageable recoil noticeably lower than a bolt rifle. Almost anybody could shoot it accurately. Not just for macho men. The trigger is heavy (but better than an AR-15), but it's a true blue romping stomping combat rifle and I bought it for brush hunting mainly. It's an absolute blast to shoot. Sold all my AR-15's and haven't looked back.

CZ 550 in 7x57mm Mauser. A rare rifle, set in a new style American walnut stock. Walnut has lots of figure. Really a nice rifle. People ask, "Is that a Sako?" Only 100 were imported into the USA back around 2010/2011. I shoot a Hornady 162 A-Max that is seated WAY out, so I needed .30-06 magazine length receiver to magazine load it. I have 3 loads worked up and a Norma factory load that all shoot sub MOA. CZ no longer offers the 7x57mm chambering in either their USA or European catalogs. The 7x57mm and Hornady 7mm 162 A-Max are known as a match made in heaven. Terminal performance is close to perfection from what I have read and my own experience. My mule deer bucks were killed in 2011 and 2012 with that bullet. Neck bone was blown apart with 38% weight retention, bullet recovered under offside skin. I was aiming for the neck bone at 200 yards and hit it dead center. The A-Max has developed a better reputation than the Berger VLD in this caliber and at far lower cost. This is my go-to long range plains game rifle and bullet. The bullets are so cheap you can practice on prairie dogs before big game season opens. That helps accuracy a lot.

I own all these rifles at the moment, with no intention of selling any of them. Some factory rifles HAVE been disappointments, but not these.

Phil

 

[Damascus]

Speaking of "out of the box" accuracy, the last few rifles I bought have been insanely accurate (and my luck has been at an all time high - at least as far as buying rifles with great barrels with minimal imperfections).

The most impressive, and probably never seen again phenomenon was the S&W M&P15T AR15 I bought back in 2005... back then the "T" models were top of the line, with Troy MRF mid-length free floating foreends, Troy flip up BUIS, etc. I got this rifle to the bench, not expecting much better than 1.5 MOA - and my first 5 round group measured .88".. I bought fell off the bench! From there, as the barrel broke in, the groups shrank and shrank. This suprised me to much because this rifle has a lightweight M4 profile chrome lined 16" barrel! Now, since I have added a JP single stage trigger and an H2 buffer, it shoots consistent 5 round groups into .7" - .75" with my handloads, 68gr. Hornady Match or 69 gr. Matchkings.

Another was a Remington M700 SPS Varmint .308. This rifle was fairly cheap - mainly because of the stock... I wanted a 700 PSS, but didn't want to pay for one.... after some research I found that the SPS V/T had the same barreled action as the higher end models, but with a cheap, plastic SPS stock to keep cost down. Since I wanted an adjustable cheek riser, rather than shelling out the dough for a PSS, I bought the SPS Varmint, which has a 26" heavy chrome-moly barrel. It also has the X-mark pro trigger, which I didn't care for too much. Out of the box, the rifle grouped 10 shot groups right at one MOA. After break in, I got it down to about .9". Then, I cut the groups IN HALF by simply adding a stock. I added a Bell & Carlson A5 tactical stock, which has an aluminum bedding block and adjustable LOP and riser. Then the groups shrunk to .58". Then, I shelled out $$$ for a Jewell trigger, and perfected my handloads, and found a 165gr. Nosler BT load that I could group into .47". Currently, I am working on a 168gr. Barnes T-TSX load that I believe is going to group even better, already down to .4".

Right now, I am working up a load for a T/C Icon - chambered in ,260 Rem, with a medium contour fluted barrel. This rifle, wow... I'm in love. Shoots .75 MOA out of the box...

 

[rdsii64]

My .308 Howa 1500 is a solid .75 shooter with 175 grain Nosler CC over 45 grains of N150. I have never altered the trigger and I have it in a Medalist stock from Bell and Carlson.