Opinions on Bullet Designs

[Tech4]

Ok, that's just your opinion. Hornady designs bullets for living and knows way more about it than we do so I trust what they say about it.

 

[Sledhead406]

Ok, that's just your opinion. Hornady designs bullets for living and knows way more about it than we do so I trust what they say about it.

Ford makes the FX4 offroad package for a truck. Does this mean the truck cannot be used on a road?

See Ballistic Studies for extensive catalogued research on the ELD-M. I can personally confirm. Keep the impact velocity under 2600 fps (see: long range) and they work excellent.

 

[Window]

So I am looking at different bullet designs as I would like to develop a universal load for my 30-06 and my .270 win. I am looking for performance from 0 to 800 yards on both Deer and Elk. High BC is desired and needs to carry 1000+ Ft lbs of energy to 800 yards. These are my general requirements.

In general is see 2 extremes that must be satisfied:

1. Penetration for quartering shots inside 300 yards
2. Energy transfer at 800 yards

In close range ideal shots, any heavy hunting bullet should be ok for either rifle, in my opinion. No matter where you hit the animal any hunting round will expend enough energy to get the job done if at all possible. With the high energy anything should get the job done (milk jug shot by any bullet from '06/270 at 100yrs blows up, 800 yards it is not so much the case).

I am thinking 150 Partitions for the 270 might be best and 208 ELD-M for the '06.

I am looking for other people's opinions on what they have found works for similar uses.

Have you looked into the Hammer Hunters. Very good accuracy and will perform at all ranges you mentioned from near to far.

 

[Tech4]

I was just trying to understand why you would hunt with a match bullet. If thats what works for you I'm good with that.

 

[bigngreen]

Ok, that's just your opinion. Hornady designs bullets for living and knows way more about it than we do so I trust what they say about it.

Trust what you see in the field NOT what someone in marketing thinks!! There are plenty of "hunting" bullets that suck for hunting and plenty of target bullets that are exceptional!!

 

[Tech4]

They sell both bullets don't they. I don't think they care if they sell ELD-X or M. The point is ELD-X is an excellent bullet it works at all velocities so why not use it.

 

[emp1953]

It is my long range target load. So far just hunting blacktail deer and see no need to use a different round for that. At the low velocity I launch the 208 eldm at I am unsure if a heavy constructed round would even provide any real improvement. This is why I am getting opinions on here. I would think a 208 ELD-M '06 round would do better then any 130gr out of my 270 or most of the cheap 180gr '06 box ammo?

I am getting people's input and already plan on trying to develop a less fragile round for elk as the the feedback seems to be that the ELD-M bullets tend to go splat if they hit thick muscle or bone.

Out of my .270win I go heavy. 150gr Noslers either partitions or ABLR. Through 21 whitetails I NEVER had a pass through with the 130's. Since going to the 150's every shot is a pass through. The heavier bullet has more retained energy at distance.

 

[LVJ76]

There are several bullets like the ELD-M, A-Max and some Bergers that are deaigned for competition, however when several hunters tried them, many of them in this forum they've proven they work great for hunting at long range.

The bullets do have an issue, the fragment (blow up or blow apart) at close range shots when pushed at magnun speeds and fail to penetrate and they provide a slow kill where on cases animals have been lost. I've witnessed this first hand on a coues deer shot by a friend, hit on the shoulder under 100 yds, deer ran off and took us all day to track him down and the finish it off.

Heavy for caliber bullets work best but can still fail at close range.

This was mentioted before on this thread, here some great info on Effective Game Killing by Nathan Foster, it explains a lot of how bullets work. You can also browse his website for cartridge and bullet reaearch
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.html

 

[nicholasjohn]

Out of my .270win I go heavy. 150gr Noslers either partitions or ABLR. Through 21 whitetails I NEVER had a pass through with the 130's. Since going to the 150's every shot is a pass through. The heavier bullet has more retained energy at distance.

This may be more a matter of bullet construction. The partition may be a little further forward in the heavier bullet, putting more mass in the shank of the bullet. This would likely improve penetration. The lower impact velocity of the heavier bullet is probably also a contributing factor - expansion may be a bit less violent, enhancing penetration.

I've never used the Nosler Partition in .277" diameter, but I have shot a fair number of deer with the .308" Partition. In the 308, with 150-grain Partitions, complete penetration was not common. The 180-grain ALWAYS passed through the animal, just as it did when I used it at slightly higher velocity in the 30-06. The exit wounds were small, unless the bullet happened to hit the shoulder on the way out. Then they were pretty wicked.

The single best load I ever shot out of my '06 was the Federal High Energy factory load, with the 180-grain Partition. Velocity was exactly as published - 2880 fps - and so was the trajectory. It grouped exceptionally well in my rifle, and it hit like a big hammer. I never did any long-range work with it, but out to about 400 yards it was a death ray. Every animal I ever shot with it went down right now. I never did shoot an elk with it, but would have been very confident of the outcome if I did. They don't make that load any more, and I wish that I had bought a case of it.

 

[LVJ76]

This may be more a matter of bullet construction. The partition may be a little further forward in the heavier bullet, putting more mass in the shank of the bullet. This would likely improve penetration. The lower impact velocity of the heavier bullet is probably also a contributing factor - expansion may be a bit less violent, enhancing penetration.

I've never used the Nosler Partition in .277" diameter, but I have shot a fair number of deer with the .308" Partition. In the 308, with 150-grain Partitions, complete penetration was not common. The 180-grain ALWAYS passed through the animal, just as it did when I used it at slightly higher velocity in the 30-06. The exit wounds were small, unless the bullet happened to hit the shoulder on the way out. Then they were pretty wicked.

The single best load I ever shot out of my '06 was the Federal High Energy factory load, with the 180-grain Partition. Velocity was exactly as published - 2880 fps - and so was the trajectory. It grouped exceptionally well in my rifle, and it hit like a big hammer. I never did any long-range work with it, but out to about 400 yards it was a death ray. Every animal I ever shot with it went down right now. I never did shoot an elk with it, but would have been very confident of the outcome if I did. They don't make that load any more, and I wish that I had bought a case of it.

The Partition from close to moderate ranges works great on tougher animals like elk. On light animals like coues deer they dont work very well unless you hit bone, or they pencil through. Had this issue with a 270 Win using 130gr Partitions, they penciled throught the lungs.

 

[emp1953]

This may be more a matter of bullet construction. The partition may be a little further forward in the heavier bullet, putting more mass in the shank of the bullet. This would likely improve penetration. The lower impact velocity of the heavier bullet is probably also a contributing factor - expansion may be a bit less violent, enhancing penetration.

I've never used the Nosler Partition in .277" diameter, but I have shot a fair number of deer with the .308" Partition. In the 308, with 150-grain Partitions, complete penetration was not common. The 180-grain ALWAYS passed through the animal, just as it did when I used it at slightly higher velocity in the 30-06. The exit wounds were small, unless the bullet happened to hit the shoulder on the way out. Then they were pretty wicked.

The single best load I ever shot out of my '06 was the Federal High Energy factory load, with the 180-grain Partition. Velocity was exactly as published - 2880 fps - and so was the trajectory. It grouped exceptionally well in my rifle, and it hit like a big hammer. I never did any long-range work with it, but out to about 400 yards it was a death ray. Every animal I ever shot with it went down right now. I never did shoot an elk with it, but would have been very confident of the outcome if I did. They don't make that load any more, and I wish that I had bought a case of it.

You could probably approximate those Federal velocities with a handload. Nosler's reloading manual lists 62gr max load of RL22 at over 2800 fps. several other powders list near 2800 fps. The handloads might not duplicate the performance of the Federal load though. For years I fed my 44mag IMI ammo from Israel. Suddenly the IMI well ran dry. That ammo made my model29 act like it was in the hands of a Wyatt Earp. I chronied the last 8 rounds I set about loading up rounds with various powders and primers finding many that reproduced the velocities exactly. None of them duplicated the consistent accuracy of the IMI rounds.

 

[LongBomber]

They sell both bullets don't they. I don't think they care if they sell ELD-X or M. The point is ELD-X is an excellent bullet it works at all velocities so why not use it.

Both eld's really don't work at all velocities. They are both just a simple cup and core bullet. Built with a very similar construction. At higher speeds they will both fragment heavily and not have the highest penetration.

 

[Mustang72]

I have shot partitions for years and never had any issues with them. They are still one of my go to bullets. The bc isnt that great so I will be trying some other options when my 300wsm gets here. I greatly prefer tough bullets that hold together and give consistent performance and leave an exit wound.

 

[Tech4]

How do you know that? At close range when velocity is fastest they shoot through and there is no bullet to look at.