The 208 ELD still opens rapidly even at 2600fps. It's an awesome bullet and my favorite .30cal bullet personally. It does a number on deer for sure. I would feel comfortable with a .30-06 loaded with 208s at 2600-2700fps as long as the rifle was obviously accurate and consistent. I would however personally limit myself to 600 yards on elk. I just suggest something along the lines of a .300 Win Mag to get the extra 300fps and gain the extra energy. A standard weight .300 with a good brake recoils less than a .308 and is very controllable.
Opinions on Bullet Designs
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The 208 ELD still opens rapidly even at 2600fps. It's an awesome bullet and my favorite .30cal bullet personally. It does a number on deer for sure. I would feel comfortable with a .30-06 loaded with 208s at 2600-2700fps as long as the rifle was obviously accurate and consistent. I would however personally limit myself to 600 yards on elk. I just suggest something along the lines of a .300 Win Mag to get the extra 300fps and gain the extra energy. A standard weight .300 with a good brake recoils less than a .308 and is very controllable.
Another bullet to consider would be the Nosler Accubond Long Range (ABLR). They have a good BC, will expand reliably with 1800fps velocity remaining, and won't totally come apart on a close shot.
I like your thinking about the Partition but it doesn't have as high a BC so 800yds is a little beyond its optimum range. Great bullet though out to 500 to 550 yds.
I like your thinking about the Partition but it doesn't have as high a BC so 800yds is a little beyond its optimum range. Great bullet though out to 500 to 550 yds.
adam32
Well-Known Member
Shoot two bullets...an A-Frame or Partition for under 300 yards then switch to a Berger/ELD for the longer ranges. Sight in for the Berger/ELD then shoot the other and record your POI compared to your POA, shouldn't be to far off at the shorter ranges.
Either cartridge is a bit weak for 800 yards on an elk though, doesn't matter what bullet they are shooting.
Either cartridge is a bit weak for 800 yards on an elk though, doesn't matter what bullet they are shooting.
Maybe this point is obvious to others, but I haven't seen it mentioned specifically. I'm not as experienced and well versed in rifles, but I started killing deer when I was 10yrs old. That was 36 years ago. So I've put a lot of meat in the freezer with several different rifles and a bow. Here's the point:
All of the statistics, percentages, velocity comparisons, energy levels etc are good as BASELINES only. After that, what kills animals well, may vary slightly from what all the theoretic evaluations in the world will tell you. To the O. P.... if I were in your situation, I'd talley up what the reputable elk hunters in your thread have recommended and I'd adjust my personal goals to fall somewhere within their recommendations. Experience teaches many lessons gained no other way.
I soak up as much wisdom here as I can every time I get time to read.
All of the statistics, percentages, velocity comparisons, energy levels etc are good as BASELINES only. After that, what kills animals well, may vary slightly from what all the theoretic evaluations in the world will tell you. To the O. P.... if I were in your situation, I'd talley up what the reputable elk hunters in your thread have recommended and I'd adjust my personal goals to fall somewhere within their recommendations. Experience teaches many lessons gained no other way.
I soak up as much wisdom here as I can every time I get time to read.
This is what I do. Partitions on top of the mag for close shots, ELDM of a similar weight for longer pokes. Works excellent in my various .284 bore hunting rifles.
For a one size fits all bullet id look at the federal edge tlr. They sell loaded ammo and bare bullets. Kinda like you combine the front half of an Accubond LR with the back half of a barnes. They also have a hollow plastic tip that is supposed to help with slow speed expansion. Their 200 grain 30 cal has a bc of .625. I havent shot them so i dont know how they shoot but as far as design for an all around hunting bullet it seems like a good option.
rustyshackleford
Well-Known Member
I'd wager you could get numbers that looked good on paper from your 30-06 with H4831 and a Berger 200-20X. Just running the numbers at 5k ft/asl at 2700 ft/sec. At 800 yards it's still doing 1850 ft/sec and delivering 1500 ft/lbs.
This isn't a recommendation because I haven't done it but assuming the 200-20x has good field reports and you are running a 24 inch barrel it should be doable.
This isn't a recommendation because I haven't done it but assuming the 200-20x has good field reports and you are running a 24 inch barrel it should be doable.
Bull_Mtn
Well-Known Member
Bull_Mtn
Well-Known Member
I have killed two elk with my .300 WSM loaded with the Federal Edge TLR 200gr bullet. One was at 570 the other at 500. Neither elk went more than 10 yds. These bullets are very accurate and the terminal performance is very impressive. Exit wounds on both elk were in the 2" range and lungs were destroyed. It performs as advertised, which says a lot. It is my only hunting bullet now. Both factory and reloads mv are a little over 2800 fps with a 24" barrel
Like I always say, I want to do all my hunting before the shot, not after.
You specifically mentioned "penetration for quartering shots", and there are many anecdotes of failure to penetrate bone with "soft" bullets of all kinds.
I'm not an accomplished hunter at all, but I've shot two small whitetail in the boiler, only ribs in the path, with a 200+ 30 cal, launched with about 3800 ftlbs muzzle energy. Both were not DRT.
1) Broadside across the top of both lungs, 200 Sierra GK, 350 yds, impact at ~2550 ftlbs and ~2550 fps. Ended up shooting that one twice after a wide open field chase of a few hundred yards.
2) Slight quartering, bullet entered the back of the port side lung, went out the front of the starboard side lung. 208 ELD-M, 552 yds, impact at ~2300 ftlbs, and ~2200 fps. Bolted 40 yds and piled up.
Both instances, bullets passed through and damaged everything in between badly. They weren't Thor's hammer though, and that's from a moderate Win Mag going 200 fps faster than a feisty '06.
I'm not a sniper by any means, but even if I absolutely knew the shot would hit broadside boiler room, I probably wouldn't take a shot on an elk with my 300WM recipe at 800 yds with a 208 ELDM (or probably any bullet).
YMMV
Interesting post, because it shows that a high lung shot, too high to really blast the lungs and too low to disrupt the spinal cord, will put you to tracking a walking dead deer. The second shot quartering through the lungs and allowing the deer to go 40 more yards is not unusual. Heck I was with a buddy when he drilled a nice sized Coues at 40 yards with a 300WTHRBY from a quartering on angle. I had my scope on that deer and was amazed that it barely flinched when he was hit dead on at that range, he did not quite make it 40 yards but he acted and looked fine (other than walking not running) till he pilled up. It just happens that way sometimes.You specifically mentioned "penetration for quartering shots", and there are many anecdotes of failure to penetrate bone with "soft" bullets of all kinds.
I'm not an accomplished hunter at all, but I've shot two small whitetail in the boiler, only ribs in the path, with a 200+ 30 cal, launched with about 3800 ftlbs muzzle energy. Both were not DRT.
1) Broadside across the top of both lungs, 200 Sierra GK, 350 yds, impact at ~2550 ftlbs and ~2550 fps. Ended up shooting that one twice after a wide open field chase of a few hundred yards.
2) Slight quartering, bullet entered the back of the port side lung, went out the front of the starboard side lung. 208 ELD-M, 552 yds, impact at ~2300 ftlbs, and ~2200 fps. Bolted 40 yds and piled up.
Both instances, bullets passed through and damaged everything in between badly. They weren't Thor's hammer though, and that's from a moderate Win Mag going 200 fps faster than a feisty '06.
I'm not a sniper by any means, but even if I absolutely knew the shot would hit broadside boiler room, I probably wouldn't take a shot on an elk with my 300WM recipe at 800 yds with a 208 ELDM (or probably any bullet).
YMMV
My worse case scenario has happened twice. Both times a really nice antlered whitetail was walking straight away from me. The first one was at 88 yards and about to disappear down into a ravine. I knew I could shoot 1/2" at 100yds so I aimed about 4" from the skull, back of the neck. Fired and the deer disappeared. I feared it had gone down the ravine but found it 15 yds from the edge, it had dropped in the brush where it was hit, the taxidermist was a wizard and he fixed up the damage. The second one was 145yds and was about to disappear into an overgrown clear cut, he was standing still right at the edge. The stand I was in had a shooting rail and there was no wind at all. I put the crosshairs at the top of its tail and fired. The bullet exited the middle front chest after traveling the full length of the deer. The worst gutting experience I ever had. Nothing inside was identifiable, but amazingly there was no meat damage at all. I was shooting a Rem700 30-06, 47.1gr of IMR3031, 165gr Nosler Partitions motoring along at about 2400fps. I still shoot the 165gr Noslers in my '06 and the 150gr in my .270win and have never been disappointed. I started in 1975 with Speer Grand Slams but was disappointed with their performance on a black bear. On the drive home from the mountains I stopped at a shop and got some Noslers and have never looked back.
Westernhuntr
Well-Known Member
ELDM's are terrible for penetration if you hit heavy muscle or bone.
After years of hunting with those and Berger's I've seen some really bad failures.
I'd go with a good bonded on copper bullet.
Check out the Federal Edge TLR, I just worked up a load in my 300 PRC and they're .5 moa at 700 yards.
Here's a pic of my buddies bull from last season, 770 yards 225 eldm.
Bullet didn't make it through the shoulder, he tracked the bull for an hour..
.338
