Opinions on Bullet Designs

[nicholasjohn]

So the 100lb deer weren't dying after being hit by a 208gr bullet launched at over 3300fps!!! I would think if the bullets weren't exiting at all, then that energy being absorbed by a target that small would have its whole insides liquefied and you found the perfect bullet.
I am not sure if an exit wound would really make something bleed faster, or if ot is more of a case that most deer that don't have an exit wound were hit with a bullet that had little energy to begin with?

With chest shots on deer & elk, I think the same amount of bleeding is going to occur whether the bullet exits or not - and it is going to kill the animal. A blood trail from an exit wound will make it quicker & easier to find the carcass, since a lot of blood will spill out of the deer's chest cavity to where you can see it on the ground. If there is no exit hole, all the blood will be retained inside the animal's chest cavity. Not much comes out of the entry wound. It's all the same to the deer - either way is bad news from the animal's perspective.

When a deer's lungs are trashed by a bullet, it's got several seconds of useful consciousness. If it happens to be all charged up and running when the bullet goes through its rib cage, it's probably going to keep right on running. If it's going really fast, it can cover 100 to 150 yards in the seven or eight seconds it has remaining. If it's standing calmly and/or ambling along feeding on acorns or something, it's likely going to drop at the shot and expire on the spot. If/when that occurs, there's no need for a blood trail. If the deer covers some ground, though, a blood trail is nice to have - especially when there's no snow on the ground.

There are numerous variables that determine whether or not the bullet will exit, but when using "soft" bullets, longer & heavier projectiles are probably somewhat more likely to exit than lighter ones. Using a heavy-for-caliber bullet for light-bodied deer will increase the chances of having an exit wound, if you want one. I don't see any down-side to having an exit wound, so I would elect to go that route if I was using a very frangible bullet.

I prefer to use a more stoutly-constructed bullet, and something near the middle of the weight range for the caliber is my preference. I like having an exit wound, since a bullet that goes all the way through reliably is definitely going to penetrate deeply enough to take out the important plumbing - and ensure a quick kill. If I want to make sure that the animal drops on the spot, for whatever reason, I place the shot to break a shoulder - either on the way in or on the way out. I don't think the "energy dump" theory holds water. If you break bones or take out an important part of the central nervous system, the animal is going to drop right now. Expending more energy in the animal's chest cavity ( by using a bullet that doesn't exit ) hasn't proven to me to be a better way to drop the animal on the spot. Maybe other guys have had different results than I have, but that's been my experience.

 

[rustyshackleford]

I have killed two elk with my .300 WSM loaded with the Federal Edge TLR 200gr bullet. One was at 570 the other at 500. Neither elk went more than 10 yds. These bullets are very accurate and the terminal performance is very impressive. Exit wounds on both elk were in the 2" range and lungs were destroyed. It performs as advertised, which says a lot. It is my only hunting bullet now. Both factory and reloads mv are a little over 2800 fps with a 24" barrel

Is that not slow as Christmas for a 300 wsm?

 

[JMW67]

So I am looking at different bullet designs as I would like to develop a universal load for my 30-06 and my .270 win. I am looking for performance from 0 to 800 yards on both Deer and Elk. High BC is desired and needs to carry 1000+ Ft lbs of energy to 800 yards. These are my general requirements.

In general is see 2 extremes that must be satisfied:

1. Penetration for quartering shots inside 300 yards
2. Energy transfer at 800 yards

In close range ideal shots, any heavy hunting bullet should be ok for either rifle, in my opinion. No matter where you hit the animal any hunting round will expend enough energy to get the job done if at all possible. With the high energy anything should get the job done (milk jug shot by any bullet from '06/270 at 100yrs blows up, 800 yards it is not so much the case).

I am thinking 150 Partitions for the 270 might be best and 208 ELD-M for the '06.

I am looking for other people's opinions on what they have found works for similar uses.

I would look at the heaviest hammer bullet my twist rates would allow and hopefully find an accuracy node on the high end.

 

[JTB]

The 150gr 270 and 190gr 30 cal ABLR will get you over 1000 ft ft/lbs of energy in either cartridge and come as close to meeting your requirement as any other option available. Expect extra meat damage at ranges under 350 yards or so on a shoulder shot but the likelihood of losing game with a solid hit is minimal. ELD-X and Berger hybrids/VLDs (other as well) also offers a favorable BC able to deliver the energy you require but I really like the bonded feature when taking closer shots with LR (thinner jackets) designs. Will not debate the appropriateness of using a 270 or 30-06 at 800 yards but I generally look closer to 1500 ft lbs for elk (doesn't mean I am right, just what I am more comfortable with)

 

[MajorSpittle]

The federal

For a one size fits all bullet id look at the federal edge tlr. They sell loaded ammo and bare bullets. Kinda like you combine the front half of an Accubond LR with the back half of a barnes. They also have a hollow plastic tip that is supposed to help with slow speed expansion. Their 200 grain 30 cal has a bc of .625. I havent shot them so i dont know how they shoot but as far as design for an all around hunting bullet it seems like a good option.

I will certainly be looking into the edge bullets. Love the design and with the center of gravity being more forward they may have better stability.

 

[Bull_Mtn]

Is that not slow as Christmas for a 300 wsm?

Federal Edge TLR .300 WSM, 200 gr, factory load is advertised at 2810, and my reload with 63.2 gr RL16 is 2840. I tried taking it up to 64 gr, groups enlarged and started seeing pressure signs. This load is still traveling above 1800 fps, developing 1500 ft lb of energy at 850 yds. Which is farther than I plan to shoot.

 

[Jud96]

Is that not slow as Christmas for a 300 wsm?

That's pretty normal velocity for a 24" .300 WSM with 200gr bullets. We worked up a load for cousin's 300 WSM with a 26" barrel. We used 68.5gr of RL26 with a 208gr ELD for an average velocity of 2820fps. I'm sure we could have throttled it up a tad more to pick up 30-50fps, but it shoots well there so he left it alone.

 

[rustyshackleford]

Federal Edge TLR .300 WSM, 200 gr, factory load is advertised at 2810, and my reload with 63.2 gr RL16 is 2840. I tried taking it up to 64 gr, groups enlarged and started seeing pressure signs. This load is still traveling above 1800 fps, developing 1500 ft lb of energy at 850 yds. Which is farther than I plan to shoot.

Idk why but I was still thinking 175 gr TLR's. I'm a dummy

 

[Tech4]

Why are you hunting with a match bullet when you should be using a hunting bullet ELD-X not ELD-M

 

[adam32]

Why are you hunting with a match bullet when you should be using a hunting bullet ELD-X not ELD-M

Because the ELD-X is explosive at close range/high velocity's. The ELD-M is tougher and by many accounts, a better hunting bullet.

 

[Jud96]

Why are you hunting with a match bullet when you should be using a hunting bullet ELD-X not ELD-M

The ELD-M performs similar or sometimes better than the ELD-X. It also has more bullet weight options and higher BCs. The ELD Match is a very deadly long range hunting bullet.

 

[MajorSpittle]

Why are you hunting with a match bullet when you should be using a hunting bullet ELD-X not ELD-M

It is my long range target load. So far just hunting blacktail deer and see no need to use a different round for that. At the low velocity I launch the 208 eldm at I am unsure if a heavy constructed round would even provide any real improvement. This is why I am getting opinions on here. I would think a 208 ELD-M '06 round would do better then any 130gr out of my 270 or most of the cheap 180gr '06 box ammo?

I am getting people's input and already plan on trying to develop a less fragile round for elk as the the feedback seems to be that the ELD-M bullets tend to go splat if they hit thick muscle or bone.

 

[Tech4]

Do you have any evidence to back this up? Because Hornady doesn't agree with you they don't recommend match bullets for hunting.

 

[adam32]

Do you have any evidence to back this up? Because Hornady doesn't agree with you they don't recommend match bullets for hunting.

Hornady says lots of things...like how the Creedmoor is the ultimate elk rifle...just because they say it doesn't make it gospel.